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  #121  
Old June 28th, 2018, 09:23 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
What is the reasoning behind Second Strike, though? I'm not seeing the theme between a Reckless figure only attacking again if the first one misses. It feels more like an addition for gameplay than for theme to me right now.
His recklessness is shown through his charging assault and closeout speed. He's great for rushing in for a potential big hit, which tends to be overextending him. He plays that way too. When you can get a juicy hit 9 spaces away but you're getting way out of position, then it's easy to be reckless with him. His second strike is due to his dual blades, so I'd say it makes sense and it also gives him his points. Keeps him killing once or twice before he goes down from the weak 4 life 3 defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Arachnomancer Bonding feels more like it belongs on a squad than a Unique Arachnid Hero to me, but I do like how it gives additional potential to Fyorlag Spiders by making Estivara slightly more feasible there.

Wall of Web seems like it might be a pain to keep track of, though. I'd like to see it simplified a little bit, since it's essentially just adding more bells and whistles to Swirling Vortex.
I'm beginning to think the bonding just needs to go and she'll do fine bonding with the Fyorlags in an army also with Estivara.


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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'm not a fan of being able to revive Orcs, Durgeth, and the Vulcanmech Incendiborgs. To me, the power would be more thematic and fitting if it only worked with Undead squad figures in some way, such as the various Skeleton squads and the Zombies of Morindan.
Good catch on the Vulcenmechs. I'll have to specify "common squad". I wanted to stay away from "been there done that" abilities for reviving undead. There are enough units with that ability. This is something new. As for his name...yeah I'm not sure yet. I'll probably just come up with a name and leave his class as Necromancer. Though I've been bouncing back and forth from making him an Uncommon...the more I think about it, the more I like it actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
It feels a little weird that the "leader" of a faction would be only 75 points, though. I know you're aiming for another option priced between the Razorbeak and Warwitch, but it feels like a slight disconnect to also say that he's the captain of the faction.
That's a fair point, though I'm not currently inclined to agree, I'll have to think about that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Quorik Razorbeak:
  • Not sure he fits as a "Quorik" since he looks so different than the Warwitch (no wings is a big thing there).
This was the result of the Pre-SoV workshop, though I agree with you. Originally Sir_H had him named Jakaw Razorbeak, but Jakaw was viewed as a unique name, which the Warwitch didn't have, so the general consensus was that the unique heros for the Raptorians should not have unique names because the Warwith had set a precedent. Thus this design's named was then changed to Quorik Razorbeak. Since there are now 2 Raptorian heros that Sir_H is working on, I personsally would like to see the return of "Jakaw" but used as a statrus title just as "Quorik" is. Quorik could be for visibly winged Raptorians, and Jakaw for the high class wingless leaders. However, these are just my thoughts on the matter.
This is correct. I do believe I'll stick with the current title until there seems to be a more logical or canon based reason to switch it. The Pre-SoV discussion seemed pretty "okay" with where the name landed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
A bunch of thoughts (yay, thoughts!)
I think Evasive isn't necessary here, especially at only 1 extra die. He's got closeout speed, so he isn't going to be sniped from range much. If you want a Raptorian power, Glide might work here. But perhaps he's too heavily armored to Glide.
Hmmm...I think you might be right. I don't know that he's ever had to use it yet for that very reason, and I don't agree that Glide fits his type. He is indeed armored.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
General Kuah:

I think it would be cool if he could move with Swift Vengeance against any sized attacking figure, but you could only deal the wound to small or mediums.
Ya know, I think you have a point there. That would at least help him be able to tie down any figure for a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Lartoth, the Spider of Lolth:
figure is Spider of Lolth from D&D miniatures. It had "okay" availability last I checked...around 40 or 50...but this is one I'm still more tentative on overall. I agree bonding should probably go, and make it a little tougher for her points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Necromancer of Valkrill
  • What's the mini?
  • He needs a real name.
  • I'm not feeling Foulspawn as a species here, or Evil as a personality.
  • The special attack is really cool.
  • Strength in Numbers seems like a very non-Valkrill-y power.
  • I'd worry about this guy bringing back Mezzos or Chasers or HSBs. Maybe just Valkrill undead?
His mini is Foulspawn Seer from Pathfinder. I may make him Uncommon...
Ideas for Species? I really couldn't put a finger on it, and personality was just a shot in the dark lol.

I'll be posting a revised version that feeds a better theme I think. I do want him bringing back any Valkrill common squaddies though...that will be part of his uniqueness.


Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Quorik Chieftain
  • What is this mini? It's cool but kinda weird. (Not that weird is bad).
  • Same concern about him being a Quorik.
  • Whatever his title is will have to match his class eventually.
  • Disengage seems off to me.
  • Raptorian Resilience is a cool power than will really help the existing Raptorians.
  • Why is the special attack only once a round?
  • I'd like to see Glide here somewhere.
The mini is Tengu Hero by Pathfinder. Yeah, maybe disengage doesn't really fit, maybe Glide would be more appropriate for theme.

Hand crossbows take time to reload, but I was going to redo it slightly to make it a little more effective. I'll be posting him shortly.

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  #122  
Old June 28th, 2018, 10:47 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs



For people looking in, I found this picture which does the Tengu Hero a lot more justice than the digital render.
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  #123  
Old June 29th, 2018, 01:47 AM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Sorry for the Delay. Here are some mockups of the changes I've done.




I really don't know what fits his race. He's not undead and I can't really think of any other good fit...at least not with the right rationale. Thoughts for his race?

Also I changed his specials to work a little more internally and I think this is the sweet spot. I love the combo of him keeping the spirits to give him strength and also releasing them to give himself attack power. Yes, it may be fairly easy for him to boost up his defense for a whole game, but at what cost? That's 3 squad figures you have to be willing to destroy to do that.

Those involved in the discussion @Leaf_It @superfrog @Astroking112 thoughts?

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  #124  
Old June 29th, 2018, 04:07 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

I still think that your Razorbeak and Chieftain should be the same type of Raptorian, something other than Quorik.

Druzhul is much improved. Strength of Souls is way better than Strength in Numbers. I'd still be worried about him with Mezzos. You could kill 2 with Druzhul, and then at the end of the game spawn them back with several markers left. In fact, the whole generic necromancer idea (i.e. he can bring back anybody, not just a super limited group) doesn't play right in my head. Not sure why. I'm a fan of the special attack, but I wonder if you could make those destroyed squad figures into Exoskeleton marker things:

Quote:
SOUL ARMOR
After Druzhul the Soulkeeper rolls defense dice against a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, remove one previously destroyed Valkrill Squad figure from this card to ignore all wounds inflicted by that attack.
Give him that and the special attack and keep it at that.

Kinda amps up his "soulkeeper" aspect.

I don't know if you want to go that direction, just an off the cuff thought.
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  #125  
Old June 29th, 2018, 07:19 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

I like Druzhul a lot. A simple solution would just be to make him only able to bring back Commons. I don't have the same concerns with him and Mezzodemons, though.

I like both the Raptorians. I'd been meaning to pick up the "Chieftan" mini for a while now.
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  #126  
Old June 29th, 2018, 09:49 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

I definitely think Druzhul's necromancy powers should be limited to undead. I can respect the desire to want to widen his horizons, but allowing it for all Valkrill squads can really limit design space for future squads.

I agree with dropping bonding on Lartoth. Bonding with Pelloth doesn't make him much better if it's not on a Drow unit, and you'll only use it once to get Estivara in position at the beginning of the game if you're playing with Spiders. After that, you'll be putting OMs on Spiders anyway. I don't think it's doing enough for the design.

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  #127  
Old June 30th, 2018, 01:59 AM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
What is the reasoning behind Second Strike, though? I'm not seeing the theme between a Reckless figure only attacking again if the first one misses. It feels more like an addition for gameplay than for theme to me right now.
His recklessness is shown through his charging assault and closeout speed. He's great for rushing in for a potential big hit, which tends to be overextending him. He plays that way too. When you can get a juicy hit 9 spaces away but you're getting way out of position, then it's easy to be reckless with him. His second strike is due to his dual blades, so I'd say it makes sense and it also gives him his points. Keeps him killing once or twice before he goes down from the weak 4 life 3 defense.
I agree that he'll play Recklessly with Charging Assault; I was just saying that Second Strike doesn't feel similarly Reckless. Something like Double Attack or (at the risk of sounding redundant) Reckless Second Swing seems like it matches the theme slightly more to me, while Second Strike feels a little bit like it was designed to keep his points low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'm not a fan of being able to revive Orcs, Durgeth, and the Vulcanmech Incendiborgs. To me, the power would be more thematic and fitting if it only worked with Undead squad figures in some way, such as the various Skeleton squads and the Zombies of Morindan.
Good catch on the Vulcenmechs. I'll have to specify "common squad". I wanted to stay away from "been there done that" abilities for reviving undead. There are enough units with that ability. This is something new. As for his name...yeah I'm not sure yet. I'll probably just come up with a name and leave his class as Necromancer. Though I've been bouncing back and forth from making him an Uncommon...the more I think about it, the more I like it actually.
While there are plenty of Undead figures that come back, I think that designing a Necromancer that complements them wouldn't be too redundant (although it would have to be carefully balanced to avoid multiple zombie outbreaks or the like, for example). I'm not sure how I feel about being able to revive any Common Valkrill Squad, since that's potentially restricting the design space on a major part of an entire general.

I don't know if you were still considering Uncommon, but I like the design much more as Unique one. It feels right to me, and I would be even more concerned about future Valkrill Common Squads if people could field multiple Necromancers (although, the recent changes you made to place figures on his card instead of freely reviving them do help a lot).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
It feels a little weird that the "leader" of a faction would be only 75 points, though. I know you're aiming for another option priced between the Razorbeak and Warwitch, but it feels like a slight disconnect to also say that he's the captain of the faction.
That's a fair point, though I'm not currently inclined to agree, I'll have to think about that.
I think the design and mini could still work well at 75 points; I just feel that it's a little odd to also say that he's the leader of the Raptorians. Calling him "Quorik Noble" or some other high-class name wouldn't bother me.

Also on the topic of Raptorian names, I think that "Jakaw Razorbeak" sounds too much like an actual name (at least without the Quorik Chieftan also being a Jakaw). If the Razorbeak is getting his own social class or the like, then I think that he should have a more recognizable class name to compensate (much like how we have the Venoc Warlord and Quorik Warwitch using classes common to other HeroScape factions).
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  #128  
Old June 30th, 2018, 02:47 AM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Also on the topic of Raptorian names, I think that "Jakaw Razorbeak" sounds too much like an actual name (at least without the Quorik Chieftan also being a Jakaw). If the Razorbeak is getting his own social class or the like, then I think that he should have a more recognizable class name to compensate (much like how we have the Venoc Warlord and Quorik Warwitch using classes common to other HeroScape factions).
If Jakaw were to be used, I would like it to be used for both the Razerbeak, and the Cheiftan, though I wouldn't mind a new name/title altogether, just as long as it was something different from Quorik. My reasons for this are based loosely on the Vipers. We have the Venocs, the Onyx, the Armocs, and the Azurite viper factions, or classes. The Raptorians would likely be similar, with Quorik referring either to a specific faction, or class of the Raptorians. The Warwitch uses what is probably magic with the Orb of Pain, and has visible wings. The Razerbeak, and the Cheiftan don't appear to use magic, and they don't have visible wings, or the flying ability. With all of this in mind, I don't think that Quorik should be reused for these designs. However, as far as I have seen, only Superfrog has expressed a similar opinion on this topic.
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  #129  
Old July 1st, 2018, 04:22 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Apologies for the delay again...it’s been a busy weekend. I’ll try to respond to your comments tonight.

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  #130  
Old July 3rd, 2018, 11:02 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Apologies Gents. Finally got around to posting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
I still think that your Razorbeak and Chieftain should be the same type of Raptorian, something other than Quorik.

Druzhul is much improved. Strength of Souls is way better than Strength in Numbers. I'd still be worried about him with Mezzos. You could kill 2 with Druzhul, and then at the end of the game spawn them back with several markers left. In fact, the whole generic necromancer idea (i.e. he can bring back anybody, not just a super limited group) doesn't play right in my head. Not sure why. I'm a fan of the special attack, but I wonder if you could make those destroyed squad figures into Exoskeleton marker things:

Quote:
SOUL ARMOR
After Druzhul the Soulkeeper rolls defense dice against a normal attack, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, remove one previously destroyed Valkrill Squad figure from this card to ignore all wounds inflicted by that attack.
Give him that and the special attack and keep it at that.

Kinda amps up his "soulkeeper" aspect.

I don't know if you want to go that direction, just an off the cuff thought.
That is an interesting idea...though I think I'm pretty happy where its at for now. I think I am beginning to agree that Valkrill undead might be a better direction even if it is like unto other units abilities to recall the dead. But my plan is to make him more playable in other builds so I think I'm going to allow his "Blood Ritual" only to work with Undead Valkrill common figures, but his Soul special and defense ability to activate on ANY Valkrill figure. That way, he could still be played with other Valkrill units, but his bringing them back would only activate for undead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King View Post
I like Druzhul a lot. A simple solution would just be to make him only able to bring back Commons. I don't have the same concerns with him and Mezzodemons, though.

I like both the Raptorians. I'd been meaning to pick up the "Chieftan" mini for a while now.
Thanks. I believe his name suits him, and I agree Valkrill Common figures is probably the way to go with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
I definitely think Druzhul's necromancy powers should be limited to undead. I can respect the desire to want to widen his horizons, but allowing it for all Valkrill squads can really limit design space for future squads.

I agree with dropping bonding on Lartoth. Bonding with Pelloth doesn't make him much better if it's not on a Drow unit, and you'll only use it once to get Estivara in position at the beginning of the game if you're playing with Spiders. After that, you'll be putting OMs on Spiders anyway. I don't think it's doing enough for the design.
I believe we're on the same page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
What is the reasoning behind Second Strike, though? I'm not seeing the theme between a Reckless figure only attacking again if the first one misses. It feels more like an addition for gameplay than for theme to me right now.
His recklessness is shown through his charging assault and closeout speed. He's great for rushing in for a potential big hit, which tends to be overextending him. He plays that way too. When you can get a juicy hit 9 spaces away but you're getting way out of position, then it's easy to be reckless with him. His second strike is due to his dual blades, so I'd say it makes sense and it also gives him his points. Keeps him killing once or twice before he goes down from the weak 4 life 3 defense.
I agree that he'll play Recklessly with Charging Assault; I was just saying that Second Strike doesn't feel similarly Reckless. Something like Double Attack or (at the risk of sounding redundant) Reckless Second Swing seems like it matches the theme slightly more to me, while Second Strike feels a little bit like it was designed to keep his points low.
That's actually exactly why I designed it that way. It's still thematic, unique and keeps him from being over powered...no problems there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Also on the topic of Raptorian names, I think that "Jakaw Razorbeak" sounds too much like an actual name (at least without the Quorik Chieftan also being a Jakaw). If the Razorbeak is getting his own social class or the like, then I think that he should have a more recognizable class name to compensate (much like how we have the Venoc Warlord and Quorik Warwitch using classes common to other HeroScape factions).
If Jakaw were to be used, I would like it to be used for both the Razerbeak, and the Cheiftan, though I wouldn't mind a new name/title altogether, just as long as it was something different from Quorik. My reasons for this are based loosely on the Vipers. We have the Venocs, the Onyx, the Armocs, and the Azurite viper factions, or classes. The Raptorians would likely be similar, with Quorik referring either to a specific faction, or class of the Raptorians. The Warwitch uses what is probably magic with the Orb of Pain, and has visible wings. The Razerbeak, and the Cheiftan don't appear to use magic, and they don't have visible wings, or the flying ability. With all of this in mind, I don't think that Quorik should be reused for these designs. However, as far as I have seen, only Superfrog has expressed a similar opinion on this topic.
I think you've said it well Leaf. Based off my pre-Sov run, Quorik doesn't seem to have any issues...though you've identified an interesting point that brings some merit to altering the title. When I submit, I'll likely ask about both naming options.

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  #131  
Old July 4th, 2018, 02:13 AM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Made some adjustments based off of your comments... more feedback is always welcome.











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Old July 4th, 2018, 04:30 AM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

I think somewhere you said that you didn't want to revive undead Thralls, if this is the case, but you still want to limit it to undead, then just limit it to Squad figures.
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