The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Lazy Orang]

How about, rather than going for 'Kyrie' at all, you tie it to Einar, or Soldiers, or Einar Soldiers?

[Pumpkin_King]

I don’t mean to speak for H101, but that was what the first version of his submission effected.

[Kinseth]

I would suggest that H101 take this information, and go test the various versions to see which one he likes best.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Dysole

It would be keeping in line with Kiova as a precedent. I think for me the biggest difference is Inspired EI looks really good to the point that it feels like a fix. This feels like another tool for EI rather than a fix (and actually creates some very interesting dynamics with EI placement). I completely agree that if it's just kyrie, it'll basically be minions and sentinels.

Yes, this. Well-worded.

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Good point. I mean, I see what you're saying, but I see the designers create Atlaga who clearly is strongest with Sentinels and Minions as well, but also makes an interesting addition to EI and Protectors. Why should creating another Kyrie Warrior with similar synergy be an issue? In fact, it's not even a stat boost like Atlaga. It's an ability with fairly limiting conditions that allows you to win back some points for losing a very high priced figure.

I'm not against broader use for Kuah, if that's what you're going for. I'd prefer it that way myself. But if your goal is to boost the EI, then he needs to help them more than more commonly-used units.

When I say Swift Vengeance needs a limitation, I don't mean limit who he works with. You can have him work with all figures if you want. By limitation I mean that the ability to auto-wound anything and everything without a roll is just too much. The original designers avoided doing that, if nothing else to avoid screwing over the Deathwalkers. We should follow their example.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Yes, this. Well-worded.

I'm not against broader use for Kuah, if that's what you're going for. I'd prefer it that way myself. But if your goal is to boost the EI, then he needs to help them more than more commonly-used units.

When I say Swift Vengeance needs a limitation, I don't mean limit who he works with. You can have him work with all figures if you want. By limitation I mean that the ability to auto-wound anything and everything without a roll is just too much. The original designers avoided doing that, if nothing else to avoid screwing over the Deathwalkers. We should follow their example.

Gotcha, thanks for the comments and direction. I think I’ve got what I came for. Based off of the comments, I’ve pretty much decided now where he’s going...though I’ll still be testing a couple different variations just to be sure.

You’ve all been a world of help. Ive taken your insights to heart and have made some needed adjustments. I’m confident he won’t need any major tweaks going forward, so after testing, you should see him next for voting.

Thank you!

[ollie]

Originally Posted by Dysole

~Dysole, who thinks if you make it figure, you've just given people very good reasons to play a bunch of rats with him.

But rats are good with everyone. Given that you have to put him on the front line when using the power, I'd say that he'd be less desirable with rats than any unit with range (other things being equal).

Another idea to add to the potential synergiseriness, again in a spirit of a weak, broad power: what about all Einar units? I'd like to see more general-specific powers (both for game-play reasons and the taking of joy in oxymorons), although I don't think this is a view shared by the judges as a wholel, at least not strongly.

[Kinseth]

Yes, the "They are good with Rats & Raelin" argument, becomes an immediate eye roll for me

[Dysole]

My argument was less he makes rats better and more he makes rats more annoying to kill which I think we can all agree is not a good goal.

~Dysole, with only herself to blame for not elaborating

[Kinseth]

Originally Posted by Dysole

My argument was less he makes rats better and more he makes rats more annoying to kill which I think we can all agree is not a good goal.

~Dysole, with only herself to blame for not elaborating

If the power of swift justice wasn't limited, that if it included Rats somehow, it would get an immediate no vote from me.

[Pumpkin_King]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

I don’t mean to speak for H101, but that was what the first version of his submission effected.

Just realized I said H101 and not Sir H. Apologies to both of ya’ll.

[Toogwick_tuk]

Gruoark 2.0

I've recently been looking back at Gruoark's submission to the SoV and have been brainstorming on how to fix some of his issues. I got rid of Troll Leadership, changed his class from Conqueror to Brute to get a stronger theme for him. I also changed his defense to one and added dismiss the rabble to add the theme that he can shirk off attacks from melee squaddies, while giving heroes a better chance against him. I did some testing including heroes only and a dungeon crawl, and he seemed more fair. I was interested in other's thoughts with this new version. I feel he gives a new cool option for the Trolls while not being completely necessary for other Trolls.

[Astroking112]

I really like how he creates new options for using old units. I remember Krug, the Ice Troll Berserker, and the Feral Troll off the top of my head--which ones am I missing?

Dismiss the Rabble sounds slightly weird from a thematic standpoint to me (mostly just that I doubt this Troll will call things "rabble" when compared to stuff like the Templars), but I don't really mind its use here.

On a surface level, he looks very strong for 140 points to me, albeit I haven't played with the D&D Trolls before, which is a massive part of the design. The potential for getting three Hero turns in a single Order Marker is intimidating, especially if one of those can be Krug.

It's also nice to see you mention a dungeon crawl test, though, since I think it's neat to see more "campaign-oriented" units every now and then.