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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #1  
Old February 21st, 2011, 09:16 PM
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Champion for a Day...

...or blind pigs rolling in the acorns.

This came up as a tangent in another thread and I thought it deserved its own post.

I contend that in the current tournament metagame, however that is realised across the world, that every single unit in Heroscape has what it takes to win a tournament.

According to the Tournament Armies Played thread, on 21st Feb 2011 exactly 100 units had already achieved this. With the information from this thread and new tournaments coming in we're now at 149 units:
Code:
10th Foot
4th Mass
Acolarh
Agent Carr
Air Elemental
Airborne Elite
Alastair
Ana Karithon
Anubian Wolves
Arkmer
Armoc Vipers
Arrow Gruts
Ashigaru Harqs
Atlaga
Aubrien Archers
Axegrinders
Black Wyrmling
Blade Gruts
Blastatrons
Blue Wyrmling
Brave Arrow
Braxas
Brunak
Capt America
Capuans
Chainfighter
Charos
Concan
Crixus
Cyprien
Darrak
Deadeye Dan
Deathchasers
Deathreavers
Deathstalkers
Dividers
Dumutef Guard
Earth Elemental
Eldgrim
Elite Onyx Vipers
Eltahale
Estivara
Fen Hydra
Finn
Fire Elemental
Gladiatrons
Goblin Cutters
Gorillinators
Granite Guardians
Greenscales
Grimnak
Gurei Oni
Heavy Gruts
Heirloom
Hive
Horn Skulled Brutes
Ice Troll Beserker
Iron Golem
Isamu
Izumi Samurai
Jorhdawn
Jotun
Kaemon Awa
Kelda
Khosumet
KMA
Knights
Kozuke Samurai
Krug
Kurrok
Kyntela Gwyn
Laglor
MacDirk Warriors
Major Q10
Major Q9
Marcu
Marcus DG
Marrden Hounds
Marro Drones
Marro Warriors
Master of the Hunt
Me-Burq-Sa
Mezzodemons
Microcorps
Migol
Mimring
Minions
Mogrimm
Mohicans
Morsbane
Nagrubs
Nakita Agents
Ne-Gok-Sa
Nerak
Nilfheim
Ogre Pulveriser
Omnicron Repulsors
Omnicron Snipers
Ornak
Otonashi
Parmenio
Phantom Knights
Raelin
Red Wyrmling
Rhogar
Roman Leg.
Runa
Sacred Band
Samuel Brown
Saylind
Sentinels
Sgt Drake (RotV)
Sgt Drake (SotM)
Shiori
Shurrak
Silver Surfer
Sir Gilbert
Sir Hawthorne
Sonlen
Sonya
Spartacus
Spiderman
Stingers
Su-Bak-Na
Swog Rider
Syvarris
Taelord
Tagawa Samurai
Tagawa Samurai Archers
Tandros Kreel
Tarn Vikings
Thanos
Theracus
Thorgrim
Tor-Kul-Na
Tornak
Ulginesh
Venoc Vipers
Venoc Warlord
Venom
Warden 816
Warforged 
Warriors of Ashra
Water Elemental
Wo-Sa-Ga
Zelrig
Zetacron
Zettian Guards
Zombies
That leaves 70ish to go.

What data am I missing? I'm sure there are events that are not included above. My loose criteria is to exclude draft events or other events where "winning unit" has no clear definition but to try to include any open-to-the-public event with, say, at least ten attendees.

So let's give each unit its day in the sun. Who's with me?

My initial thought is that at least one (and preferably three) deathwalkers should be on the list. I'll be working on that this weekend at TotalCon [edit: and failing, though I did lose a championship game with DW8K].

Missing units, ordered by power ranking:

A: Greenscales.
A-: Agent Skahen, Fire Elemental, Sgt Drake (SotM).
B+: Capuans, Crixus, Eltahale, Finn, Goblin Cutters, HSB, Kurrok, Moltenclaw, Othkurik, Samuel Brown, Sir Hawthorne, Spartacus, Spiderman, Torin, Venoc Vipers, Venoc Warlord, Water Elemental.
B: Abomination, Arkmer, Ana Karithon, Ice Troll Beserker, Incredible Hulk, Iron Golem, James Murphy, Marrden Hounds, Marro Drones, Ogre Warhulk, Omnicron Repulsors, Omnicron Snipers, Protectors of Ullar, Raelin (SotM), Siege, Tandros Kreel, Ulginesh, White Wyrmling.
B-: Air Elemental, Anubian Wolves, Deathknights of Valkrill, Deepwyrm Drow, Earth Elemental, Emirroon, Estivara, Feral Troll, Granite Guardians, Iron Man, Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan, Jorhdawn, Kato Katsuro, Quasatch Hunters, Retiarius, Sir Denrick, Su-Bak-Na, Thanos, Werewolf Lord, Wyvern, Zettian Guards.
C+: Agent Carr, Ashigaru Yari, Brandis Skyhunter, Chardris, Dr. Doom, Erevan, Evar Scarcarver, Frost Giant, Fyorlag Spiders, Greater Ice Elemental, Kumiko, MacDirk Warriors, Master of the Hunt, Master Win Chiu Woo, Mika Connour, Morsbane, Ninjas of the Northern Wind, Red Skull, Sharwin Wildborn, Sir Dupuis, Sujoah, Tul-Bak-Ra, Valguard, Wolves of Badru.
C: Dumutef Guard, Elite Onyx Vipers, Gorillinators, Iskra, Kee-Mo-Shi, Khosumet the Darklord, Mind Flayer Mastermind, Parmenio, Pelloth, Rechets of Bogdan, Shaolin Monks, Sudema.
C-: Dzu-Teh, Deathwalker 8000, Deathwalker 9000, Dünd, The Einar Imperium, Empress Kiova, Grok Riders, Roman Archers, Sahuagin Raider, Shades of Bleakewoode, Templar Cavalry, Warden 816.
D: Deadeye Dan, Major X17, Marro Drudge, Moriko, Obsidian Guards, Shiori.
F: Deathwalker 7000, Hatamoto Taro.

Last edited by ollie; December 21st, 2011 at 12:32 AM.
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  #2  
Old February 21st, 2011, 09:19 PM
Devil's Advocate Devil's Advocate is offline
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Re: Champion for a Day

Morsbane has been in a minimum of 3 Championship armies. I think Thanos has but not 100% sure
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  #3  
Old February 21st, 2011, 09:21 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
Morsbane has been in a minimum of 3 Championship armies.
Excellent. Which ones? (Or at least one.)
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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:37 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Here's the most recent I think:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=28559

There was also an Elf army one and one from a while ago
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  #5  
Old February 21st, 2011, 09:40 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil's Advocate View Post
Here's the most recent I think:

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=28559

There was also an Elf army one and one from a while ago
Thanks, added to the list. Any more info on the elf army one? That would add some to the list (I had my eye on attempting to fill that gap too, once a 570ish point event next came around).
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  #6  
Old February 21st, 2011, 09:54 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

From the "balance" thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
...Some of this is just a function of who's bothered to post their records. I know, for instance, that Greenscales (+Nilfheim+Raelin) won Utah NHSD.
Added.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 09:58 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Crixus is covered.

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Old February 21st, 2011, 10:01 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Crixus is covered.
Added.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Eltahale just won Pestered in Westford 2.
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  #10  
Old February 21st, 2011, 10:09 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo View Post
Eltahale just won Pestered in Westford 2
I knew that.

Thanks, added.
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Old February 21st, 2011, 10:49 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Well met!

I do not disagree that it is possible for any unit to be in a tournament winning army, but that is quite different from "having what it takes". Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while. The Krav and Q9 have long coat-tails. It is the circumstances under which they appear that I am seeking to improve. We may disagree as to which units under what circumstances are over or under priced, but the majority of us agree that the current system does not perfectly reflect their value. I am not saying that the game is not playable and fun as is, and I am perfectly capable of, and have implemented, all the "fixes" that have been suggested thus far in all the various forums under which the broad issue of point values for units has been discussed. I do not believe that a "balanced" point system is akin to blanding Heroscape into Chess. Certain units will always be ineffectual regardless of any circumstance or system. But the only thing stopping units like the Tagawa Samurai Archers, Ninjas of the Northern Wind (and unique squads in general), and Moriko from being as viable for their points as Stingers, Q9, and Nilfeim is price. Whatever unit variety there is in the construction of tournament winning armies is in spite of, rather than as an attribute of, the current, static pricing scheme.


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Old February 21st, 2011, 10:59 PM
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Re: Champion for a Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
Well met!

I do not disagree that it is possible for any unit to be in a tournament winning army, but that is quite different from "having what it takes". Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while. The Krav and Q9 have long coat-tails. It is the circumstances under which they appear that I am seeking to improve. We may disagree as to which units under what circumstances are over or under priced, but the majority of us agree that the current system does not perfectly reflect their value. I am not saying that the game is not playable and fun as is, and I am perfectly capable of, and have implemented, all the "fixes" that have been suggested thus far in all the various forums under which the broad issue of point values for units has been discussed. I do not believe that a "balanced" point system is akin to blanding Heroscape into Chess. Certain units will always be ineffectual regardless of any circumstance or system. But the only thing stopping units like the Tagawa Samurai Archers, Ninjas of the Northern Wind (and unique squads in general), and Moriko from being as viable for their points as Stingers, Q9, and Nilfeim is price. Whatever unit variety there is in the construction of tournament winning armies is in spite of, rather than as an attribute of, the current, static pricing scheme.
I both agree and disagree. As much as anything else, this thread is about celebrating those blind pigs rolling around in the acorns as it is a celebration of how amazingly well the point costs allow a thread of this type to be even conceivable.
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