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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies. |
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#1
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Dysole's Draft Rankings
After winning OHS S51 which was a sideboard drafting event, I have now won multiple drafting events of varying types which has given me a lot of insight into how to construct a pool that gives you high odds of success. I've toyed with creating a ranking for draft for a while because a lot of principles hold compared to standard play but there are definitely different dynamics at work.
A few caveats. This ranking is primarily about building the pool, not the actual gameplay. Power rankings by OEAO, Jexik, dok, or vegie (among others) are still going to hold basically true for the actual playing of the game. Draft introduces some more dynamics and a lot jankier armies but usually a figure that's good in standard play will be good in an actual game of draft These rankings are built assuming you're not sabotaging yourself. Figures like Warriors of Ashra or Mezzodemons are assuming you're including something that counters their difficult to play against abilities. Bonding squads are generally assumed to have one or more figures they bond with in the pool. You're not going to necessarily build a great draft pool by throwing together a bunch of high ranking figures that don't have any synergy with each other. I mean specific things with the letter grades I'm handing out. I'm using the standard A, B, C, D, F with +/- values. Generally speaking, this corresponds to A - You will pretty much never regret including this B - Solid option C - You can make this work but it'll take some effort and careful planning D - It's not impossible to make this work, but it's going to be very hard F - Most of the time it will be dead weight If a figure is a plus or minus in its tier, I think it's either a step above or a step below the other things in its tier These rankings are assuming the whole VC catalog and standard pricing for games that will end up in the 400-600 range. I've put the VC units into spoiler boxes in their tiers, but classic units are ranked assuming those units are available. These should still be pretty close to accurate even with that. A few units (like Guilty McCreech, as an example) are probably ranked a bit higher but I don't think VC made anything jump several tiers in either direction. If you see an unfamiliar unit in a Classic figure's description, then you can probably assume that the ranking is impacted by that VC unit and probably drop it down a slot or two. When it comes to Delta pricing, if my notes talk about the cost of something, adjust that based on Delta pricing. Generally speaking, if something goes up or down by 10 points or less, it will probably not change my thoughts that much. Otherwise, anything that goes up in price significantly probably drops a tier and anything that drops in price significantly probably goes up a tier. There are three different types of rankings. I have three rankings that I've built out. Draft pool, Sideboard, and Pod (also known as Cluster). Figures do shift a bit on rankings between these formats but they are all fairly drafty and I felt like not mentioning all of them would be doing a disservice. These are the standard format assumptions I'm going with. Draft pool - Both players bring a pool of X points worth of units, combine the pool and then draft to Y points in a snake draft fashion (First person picks one pick, and then players alternate two picks each until both players have created an army) Sideboards - Both players bring a pool of X points worth of units, build an army of Y points from their own pool and reveal their chosen armies simultaneously Pod/Cluster - Both players bring a number of pods (2-4) of X points worth of units, combine all pods, and then draft pods in a snake draft fashion (with each player ending up with typically 2-3 pods) A few things I noticed while building these rankings. Cheapness, ability to work in smaller numbers, having a number of useful abilities especially counter abilities, synergy, and good stats tended to rank you higher in roughly that order. Anyways, enjoy! ~Dysole, who will do her best to keep this updated as new information/results occur or additional VC units are released My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. Last edited by Dysole; April 1st, 2023 at 05:52 PM. |
#2
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Draft Pool Rankings
POOLED DRAFT RANKINGS
A+ Axegrinders of Burning Forge Death Chasers of Thesk Deathreavers Eldgrim the Viking Champion Guilty McCreech Kaemon Awa Marcu Esenwein Me-Burq-Sa Phantom Knights Roman Legionnaires
Spoiler Alert!
A 10th Regiment of Foot Black Wyrmling Darrak Ambershard Fen Hydra Marro Dividers Marro Stingers Mezzodemon Warmongers Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider Red Wyrmling Warriors of Ashra
Spoiler Alert!
A- Arkmer Death Knights of Valkrill
Spoiler Alert!
B+ Agent Skahen Airborne Elite Arrow Gruts Ashigaru Harquebus Brave Arrow Crixus Drow Chainfighter Finn the Viking Champion Grimnak Heavy Gruts Heirloom Isamu Krav Maga Agents Krug Major Q10 Mohican River Tribe Nakita Agents Ne-Gok-Sa Otonashi Sir Gilbert Syvarris Tagawa Samurai Archers Theracus Thorgrim the Viking Champion Valguard Wyvern Zetacron
Spoiler Alert!
B 4th Massachusetts Line Alastair MacDirk Blade Gruts Blastatrons Brunak Concan the Kyrie Warrior Cyprien Esenwein Elite Onyx Vipers Eltahale Evar Scarcarver Gladiatrons Horned Skull Brutes Izumi Samurai James Murphy Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan Knights of Weston Kyntela Gwyn Laglor Major X17 Marcus Decimus Gallus Marrden Hounds Marrden Nagrubs Migol Ironwill Mimring Mogrimm Forgehammer Ninjas of the Northern Wind Ornak Sacred Band Samuel Brown Sonlen Tarn Viking Warriors Warden 816 Warforged Soldiers White Wyrmling Zelrig
Spoiler Alert!
B- Charos Fyorlag Spiders Kozuke Samurai Moltenclaw Swog Rider Werewolf Lord
Spoiler Alert!
C+ Air Elemental Anubian Wolves Deepwyrm Drow Frost Giant of Morh Goblin Cutters Marro Drones Tandros Kreel
Spoiler Alert!
C Ana Karithon Armoc Vipers Aubrien Archers Braxas Einar Imperium Estivara Gorillinators Granite Guardians Gurei-Oni Ice Troll Berserker Iskra Esenwein Kumiko MacDirk Warriors Minions of Utgar Omnicron Repulsors Omnicron Snipers Othkurik The Black Dragon Parmenio Protectors of Ullar Quasatch Hunters Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [SotM] Rhogar Dragonspine Roman Archers Sahuagin Raider Sentinels of Jandar Sgt. Drake Alexander [RotV] Sgt. Drake Alexander [SotM] Shaolin Monks Shurrak Siege Sir Hawthorne Sonya Esenwein Taelord the Kyrie Warrior Tagawa Samurai Tornak Venoc Vipers Venoc Warlord Wolves of Badru Zettian Guards Zombies of Morindan
Spoiler Alert!
C- Deadeye Dan Deathstalkers Dumutef Guard Greenscale Warriors Jorhdawn Jotun Khosumet the Darklord Marro Drudge Master of the Hunt Master Win Chiu Woo Microcorp Agents Mind Flayer Mastermind Moriko Morsbane Ogre Pulverizer Ogre Warhulk Tor-Kul-Na Tul-Bak-Ra Water Elemental
Spoiler Alert!
D+ Sir Denrick
Spoiler Alert!
D Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior Brandis Skyhunter Capuan Gladiators Erevan Sunshadow Hatamoto Taro Major Q9 Marro Warriors Nilfheim Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [RotV] Retiarius Shades of Bleakwoode Sharwin Wildborn Shiori Su-Bak-Na Sujoah Ulginesh Wo-Sa-Ga
Spoiler Alert!
D- Blue Wyrmling Chardris Deathwalker 7000 Deathwalker 8000 Deathwalker 9000 Dünd Feral Troll Fire Elemental Greater Ice Elemental Iron Golem Kee-Mo-Shi Kelda the Kyrie Warrior Marro Hive Mika Connour Rechets of Bogdan Sudema Templar Cavalry Torin
Spoiler Alert!
F+ Ashigaru Yari Kurrok the Elementalist
Spoiler Alert!
F Acolarh Agent Carr Dzu-Teh Emirroon Empress Kiova Grok Riders Obsidian Guards Pelloth Sir Dupuis Spartacus
Spoiler Alert!
F- Earth Elemental Kato Katsuro Runa Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Spoiler Alert!
My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. |
#3
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Sideboards Rankings
SIDEBOARDS RANKINGS
A+ 10th Regiment of Foot Axegrinders of Burning Forge Black Wyrmling Death Chasers of Thesk Deathreavers Eldgrim the Viking Champion Guilty McCreech Isamu Kaemon Awa Major Q9 Marcu Esenwein Marro Warriors Me-Burq-Sa Phantom Knights Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [RotV] Roman Legionnaires
Spoiler Alert!
A Darrak Ambershard Fen Hydra Heirloom Krav Maga Agents Major Q10 Marro Dividers Marro Stingers Mezzodemon Warmongers Ne-Gok-Sa Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider Nilfheim Red Wyrmling Warriors of Ashra
Spoiler Alert!
A- Airborne Elite Arkmer Sir Gilbert Syvarris
Spoiler Alert!
B+ 4th Massachusetts Line Arrow Gruts Blade Gruts Blastatrons Braxas Cyprien Esenwein Drow Chainfighter Eltahale Finn the Viking Champion Grimnak Heavy Gruts Izumi Samurai Knights of Weston Krug Marcus Decimus Gallus Mimring Mogrimm Forgehammer Nakita Agents Otonashi Swog Rider Tagawa Samurai Theracus Thorgrim the Viking Champion Valguard White Wyrmling Wyvern Zetacron
Spoiler Alert!
B Agent Skahen Alastair MacDirk Aubrien Archers Brave Arrow Brunak Concan the Kyrie Warrior Crixus Death Knights of Valkrill Evar Scarcarver Frost Giant of Morh Gladiatrons Greenscale Warriors Horned Skull Brutes James Murphy Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan Kozuke Samurai Kyntela Gwyn Laglor Marrden Hounds Marrden Nagrubs Marro Drones Migol Ironwill Mohican River Tribe Morsbane Ninjas of the Northern Wind Ornak Sacred Band Samuel Brown Sonlen Tagawa Samurai Archers Tandros Kreel Tarn Viking Warriors Warden 816 Warforged Soldiers Zelrig
Spoiler Alert!
B- Ashigaru Harquebus Charos Elite Onyx Vipers Fyorlag Spiders Hatamoto Taro Moltenclaw Werewolf Lord
Spoiler Alert!
C+ Air Elemental Deepwyrm Drow Goblin Cutters Gorillinators Jorhdawn Kurrok the Elementalist Taelord the Kyrie Warrior Ulginesh Zombies of Morindan
Spoiler Alert!
C Ana Karithon Anubian Wolves Armoc Vipers Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior Chardris Deathstalkers Dumutef Guard Einar Imperium Estivara Fire Elemental Granite Guardians Ice Troll Berserker Iskra Esenwein Jotun MacDirk Warriors Major X17 Marro Hive Microcorp Agents Minions of Utgar Ogre Pulverizer Ogre Warhulk Omnicron Repulsors Omnicron Snipers Othkurik The Black Dragon Parmenio Protectors of Ullar Quasatch Hunters Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [SotM] Rechets of Bogdan Rhogar Dragonspine Roman Archers Sahuagin Raider Sentinels of Jandar Sgt. Drake Alexander [RotV] Sgt. Drake Alexander [SotM] Shaolin Monks Shiori Shurrak Siege Sir Hawthorne Sonya Esenwein Sudema Tor-Kul-Na Tornak Tul-Bak-Ra Venoc Vipers Venoc Warlord Water Elemental Wolves of Badru Zettian Guards
Spoiler Alert!
C- Deadeye Dan Khosumet the Darklord Kumiko Marro Drudge Master of the Hunt Master Win Chiu Woo Mind Flayer Mastermind Moriko
Spoiler Alert!
D+ Sir Denrick
Spoiler Alert!
D Capuan Gladiators Deathwalker 7000 Deathwalker 8000 Deathwalker 9000 Dünd Dzu-Teh Emirroon Erevan Sunshadow Feral Troll Greater Ice Elemental Iron Golem Kee-Mo-Shi Kelda the Kyrie Warrior Retiarius Shades of Bleakwoode Sharwin Wildborn Su-Bak-Na Sujoah Templar Cavalry Torin Wo-Sa-Ga
Spoiler Alert!
D- Acolarh Blue Wyrmling Brandis Skyhunter Gurei-Oni Earth Elemental Kato Katsuro Runa Saylind the Kyrie Warrior Mika Connour
Spoiler Alert!
F+ Ashigaru Yari
Spoiler Alert!
F Agent Carr Empress Kiova Grok Riders Obsidian Guards Pelloth Sir Dupuis Spartacus
Spoiler Alert!
F- Earth Elemental Runa Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Spoiler Alert!
My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. |
#4
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Pod/Cluster Rankings
POD/CLUSTER RANKINGS
A+ 10th Regiment of Foot Axegrinders of Burning Forge Deathreavers Eldgrim the Viking Champion Guilty McCreech Kaemon Awa Marcu Esenwein Me-Burq-Sa Phantom Knights Roman Legionnaires
Spoiler Alert!
A 4th Massachusetts Line Black Wyrmling Darrak Ambershard Death Chasers of Thesk Marro Dividers Marro Stingers Mezzodemon Warmongers Nerak the Glacian Swog Rider Red Wyrmling Warriors of Ashra
Spoiler Alert!
A- Arkmer Death Knights of Valkrill Fen Hydra
Spoiler Alert!
B+ Brave Arrow Brunak Concan the Kyrie Warrior Drow Chainfighter Eltahale Finn the Viking Champion Fyorlag Spiders Heavy Gruts Heirloom Isamu Izumi Samurai Knights of Weston Kozuke Samurai Krug Laglor Major X17 Marcus Decimus Gallus Mogrimm Forgehammer Mohican River Tribe Nakita Agents Ne-Gok-Sa Nilfheim Ornak Otonashi Tagawa Samurai Archers Theracus Thorgrim the Viking Champion Warden 816 Warforged Soldiers White Wyrmling Wyvern Zelrig Zetacron
Spoiler Alert!
B Agent Skahen Alastair MacDirk Anubian Wolves Arrow Gruts Ashigaru Harquebus Braxas Crixus Cyprien Esenwein Grimnak Horned Skull Brutes Iskra Esenwein James Murphy Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan Krav Maga Agents Kumiko Kyntela Gwyn Major Q10 Migol Ironwill Mimring Ninjas of the Northern Wind Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [SotM] Sacred Band Samuel Brown Sir Gilbert Swog Rider Syvarris Tagawa Samurai Tandros Kreel Tarn Viking Warriors Valguard
Spoiler Alert!
B- Charos Gladiatrons Greenscale Warriors Marrden Hounds Marrden Nagrubs Moltenclaw Sonlen Werewolf Lord
Spoiler Alert!
C+ Air Elemental Airborne Elite Deepwyrm Drow Dumutef Guard Frost Giant of Morh Goblin Cutters Jorhdawn Major Q9 Roman Archers
Spoiler Alert!
C Ana Karithon Armoc Vipers Blade Gruts Estivara Evar Scarcarver Gorillinators Granite Guardians Gurei-Oni Ice Troll Berserker Jotun Marro Drones Marro Drudge Master of the Hunt Microcorp Agents Mind Flayer Mastermind Minions of Utgar Ogre Pulverizer Omnicron Repulsors Omnicron Snipers Othkurik The Black Dragon Parmenio Protectors of Ullar Quasatch Hunters Rechets of Bogdan Rhogar Dragonspine Sahuagin Raider Sentinels of Jandar Sgt. Drake Alexander [RotV] Sgt. Drake Alexander [SotM] Shaolin Monks Shiori Shurrak Siege Sir Hawthorne Sonya Esenwein Taelord the Kyrie Warrior Tor-Kul-Na Tornak Tul-Bak-Ra Venoc Vipers Venoc Warlord Water Elemental Wolves of Badru Zettian Guards
Spoiler Alert!
C- Aubrien Archers Blastatrons Deadeye Dan Deathstalkers Elite Onyx Vipers Khosumet the Darklord Master Win Chiu Woo Moriko Morsbane Ogre Warhulk
Spoiler Alert!
D+ Fire Elemental Greater Ice Elemental Kurrok the Elementalist MacDirk Warriors Sir Denrick
Spoiler Alert!
D Brandis Skyhunter Capuan Gladiators Chardris Deathwalker 7000 Deathwalker 8000 Deathwalker 9000 Dünd Einar Imperium Erevan Sunshadow Feral Troll Hatamoto Taro Iron Golem Kee-Mo-Shi Kelda the Kyrie Warrior Marro Warriors Raelin the Kyrie Warrior [RotV] Retiarius Shades of Bleakwoode Sharwin Wildborn Su-Bak-Na Sujoah Torin Ulginesh Wo-Sa-Ga Zombies of Morindan
Spoiler Alert!
D- Acolarh Atlaga the Kyrie Warrior Blue Wyrmling Marro Hive Mika Connour Sudema Templar Cavalry
Spoiler Alert!
F+ Ashigaru Yari Emirroon Obsidian Guards
Spoiler Alert!
F Agent Carr Dzu-Teh Empress Kiova Grok Riders Pelloth Sir Dupuis Spartacus
Spoiler Alert!
F- Earth Elemental Kato Katsuro Runa Saylind the Kyrie Warrior
Spoiler Alert!
My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. Last edited by Dysole; April 1st, 2023 at 04:39 PM. |
#5
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Notes on Units
NOTES ON UNITS
Spoiler Alert!
My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. Last edited by Dysole; April 1st, 2023 at 09:54 PM. |
#6
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Re: Dysole's Draft Rankings
Really great and admirably thorough post.
This is really valuable for helping understand the ways in which you want to construct your draft pools. Q9 is still good once he hits the table, but putting Q9 in your pool puts you at a big disadvantage because your games will often come down to who can safely draft Q9 first. The one note I'll make is that building a draft or pod draft pool solely out of the A+ figures can create weird secondary effects if your opponent is also doing the same. Very often players who know their pools well and use top tier figures go far. I've had two Pod Draft finals games where I've had to draft very differently because my opponent also brought Phantom Knights, which just makes those finals games messier. 10 Years of Gencon/Scapecon Battle Reports - Comic Battle Reports - Probability Calculator App - Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes "It's all about the game." - Sgt. Ernie Calhoun |
#7
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Re: Dysole's Draft Rankings
Wow you're rough on Agent Carr, I'd rate him higher than Kee-mo-shi, but never had the guts to try him in an actual competitive game.
Also I think Guilty McCreech is overrated as a filler (not with Dreadguls, Clayton) in theory you can do very nice things for super low points but in practice he's super hard to use and often get slashed in one or 2 turns. |
#8
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FWIW
Carr is probably better than KMS in a vacuum but I can see myself occasionally considering KMS in a draft but I'm not coming up with anything where I would pick Carr.
Guilty without any of the stuff from VC that helps him (Dreadguls or Clayton or Ebon) is probably A-. ~Dysole, informationally My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. |
#9
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Re: FWIW
Quote:
Quote:
I'd love to do a draft tournament with random pools one day, I think it would make us discover some weird and cool synergies and "counters". |
#10
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Heads Up
I plan on updating these once all the figures from the AoA set are revealed.
~Dysole, already mulling where she'd put the AoA stuff My Twitch Channel where I play Scape and other things My YouTube Channel where the games get uploaded later Dysole's Draft Rankings Map Thread (Not responsible for psychic damage) Customs Battle Reports This sentence is seven words long. This sentence is not seven words long. |
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