Sir Heroscape's customs

[BiggaBullfrog]

Originally Posted by Whiskey McGreggor

I think Soul Weaver would be a cool name, spirit bender sounds like something from Avatar.

Druzhul the Last Spirit Bender -- coming soon to Nickelodeon.

I agree with Leaf_It that Druzhul is stepping out of Necromancer territory. Not that I think it would disqualify him, but he may be better as a Warlock or Shaman (he kind of seems like a WoW Warlock to me, though I have limited knowledge there).

Souls of the Dead Special Attack needs some word work to clarify the mechanics, but is an interesting power.

Still think this guy needs a limit on what he can resurrect, as it's limiting future design space. First off, he should only be able to bring back small/medium figures, since his power triggers off of destroying small/medium figures. It should also be limited to a faction, IMO. Right now, Valkrill doesn't have commons that are too good with that power (closest is Mezzos, mayyybe Death Knights/HSB in the right situation), but this power would put a limit on how good his future commons would be. Imagine units along the lines of Minions of Utgar or Deathreavers being used. He's already good as a unit transporter since he can kill figures behind him and respawn them in the enemy's face while killing at the same time. Not that that's bad -- it's an interesting design direction with its risk/reward -- but having it work with any common limits what Valkrill can get in the future.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog

Druzhul the Last Spirit Bender -- coming soon to Nickelodeon.

I agree with Leaf_It that Druzhul is stepping out of Necromancer territory. Not that I think it would disqualify him, but he may be better as a Warlock or Shaman (he kind of seems like a WoW Warlock to me, though I have limited knowledge there).

Souls of the Dead Special Attack needs some word work to clarify the mechanics, but is an interesting power.

Still think this guy needs a limit on what he can resurrect, as it's limiting future design space. First off, he should only be able to bring back small/medium figures, since his power triggers off of destroying small/medium figures. It should also be limited to a faction, IMO. Right now, Valkrill doesn't have commons that are too good with that power (closest is Mezzos, mayyybe Death Knights/HSB in the right situation), but this power would put a limit on how good his future commons would be. Imagine units along the lines of Minions of Utgar or Deathreavers being used. He's already good as a unit transporter since he can kill figures behind him and respawn them in the enemy's face while killing at the same time. Not that that's bad -- it's an interesting design direction with its risk/reward -- but having it work with any common limits what Valkrill can get in the future.

Oops...while reworking his abilities I forgot to put in Undead as one of the limitations to his abilities. That has been my intention ever since you first mentioned it.

Shaman seems like an okay fit, warlock doesn't though.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Oops...while reworking his abilities I forgot to put in Undead as one of the limitations to his abilities. That has been my intention ever since you first mentioned it.

Shaman seems like an okay fit, warlock doesn't though.

The Undead limitation would certainly make me more accepting of Necromancer as the class, though this design still doesn't feel very Necromancery on it's own. Both Shaman and Warlock sound fine to me. A Diener is what a person who works in a morgue is called, and could possibly work as well, though it doesn't sound as cool.


I like the design still, and the undead limitation helps so that it doesn't significantly hinder any future Valkrill designs. If Souls of the Dead, or Return of Souls is shown to be too good, you could tie a d20 roll to either placing figures on the card, or to placing them back on the board. You could also have a risk of destroying the figures on the card after using Souls of the Dead. Might not be necessary, but it's a nerfing option that doesn't change the design drastically.

[Sir Heroscape]

He’s been good so far but not OP yet. In fact, his biggest limitation is when he kills and looses his “souls”. He becomes quite vulnerable. Though, it doesn’t help when he’s fighting Gruts either they made quick work of him by running past his screen and chopping down his screen faster than he could replenish it.

[Whiskey McGreggor]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

He’s been good so far but not OP yet. In fact, his biggest limitation is when he kills and looses his “souls”. He becomes quite vulnerable. Though, it doesn’t help when he’s fighting Gruts either they made quick work of him by running past his screen and chopping down his screen faster than he could replenish it.

Sounds like he's either a mid game hunter hero that picks off stragglers or a hero that would do well in one on one situations against other hero's ( With moderate health and attack points )
Also seems like he can be easily overpowered by swarm squads if not buffed by his abilities or supported by other figures. Either way I'm liking the devotion you're dedicating to this hero, here's to hoping he ends up as an official custom.

[Sir Heroscape]

Somewhat raw as I haven't run these by many others...but availability is strong for all these miniatures as they are currently printed and sold by reaperbones and the sorcerer has lots of availability in the market.

We've got a Sorcerer and his Conjured Shadows entering the battlefield as their own potential army. This is one of my more exciting designs I've gotten passionate about; bringing to life a Drow Archmage with his evil Shadows.

I'd really like some feedback to get these guys where they feel right. A couple of questions/concerns:
- Xundar is currently designed after Kurrok. I don't have any problems with this...but others might. Is it too parallel or is there enough uniqueness? Maybe I should just change up the stats a little?
-Right now the "Race/Species" for the Shadow creatures is simply Shadow. I'm not sure how else to classify them. Shadow could work, but I was also thinking Animata since the sorcerer would be animating/giving life to the shadows. Typically Animata are infused into something more physical like a set of armor or something...but who's to say that a dark sorcerer can't animate shadows into evil minions right? Any thoughts?
-I feel really good about all of these except for the shadow wraith. I designed it so that if you have multiples of these guys (4-5) and you could potentially roll 4-5 times for their ability if they are engaged with another unique hero. While this is cool and all, my biggest worry is that it's not viable enough. I'd be afraid they wouldn't get any table time (even though they are cheaper) while the other 2 would normally get picked. Maybe they could get a third ability? or maybe I can lower the roll for the ability? I'm also concerned their defense may be too high. It's 4 right now, but probably has to be 3?





Figures (Top to Bottom): Drow Archmage, Shadow Demon, Shadow Hound, Shadow
@Leaf_It @BiggaBullfrog any thoughts?

[superfrog]

I think this is a super cool concept, but I think it could use a few tweaks.

Xundar (as you mentioned) is too much like Kurrok. He doesn't have to be that different. I'd probably start by making his summoning mechanic different. Perhaps have his summoning be automatic, but only if he's unengaged. Maybe give him the chance to summon multiple shadows per turn?

Demon and Wraith don't particularly seem like classes, especially Demon. We've already got Demon as a race.

Cower in Fear special attack seems like a weird name to me. At first I read it as the Shadow Demon cowering in fear. On top of that, it's really not very different from his normal attack.

I think the Shadow Hound is the most powerful of the 3 Shadows, and it's also my favorite, thematically.

It's weird to me that they don't all have Stealth Flying, or at least Phantom Walk.

Did you mean to change Soul Devour to "after moving"? That makes it really powerful.

[Astroking112]

I don't have enough time to give more detailed feedback right now, but I just wanted to suggest that you change the wording from Kurrok to either specify Common Shadow Heroes or create a new unique race for the Shadows.

I'm not a big fan of how Kurrok restricts the space for designing elementals, and I personally have some shadow units in mind already for SoV. Considering that the Arena of the Planeswalkers sets include many unpainted black miniatures, I'm sure that many might be in the same boat.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I agree that Xundar is too much like Kurrok. superfrog has a good suggestion in messing with the summoning mechanic, but I also think it could be good to mess with the bonding as well in some way to make his play style feel different from Kurrok/Elementals. I do think you're on to something with the dungeon/shadow bonuses.

I'm not totally against Shadow as a race, but feel like there might be something better (pulling blanks on it right now, though; I'll pop back in if anything comes to mind).

Demon shouldn't be a class (as sf said), it's already a race. And while I'm agreeing with sf, Wraith also doesn't sound like a class -- you could probably go the Shades route and make it a Devourer.

Cower in Fear doesn't sound like a Special Attack name, though the mechanics are fine (though, again, sf has a point that it's not terribly different from his normal attack; maybe if it gives -1 defense for each Shadow adjacent to the defending figure?).

I really like the concept for the Shadow Hound, but Hunting is a bit too much of a copy/paste from the Preyblood Thrall for me right now with the only difference being wound markers/order markers (which took me a couple read throughs to get, since I recognized the Thrall power and assumed it was the same power/different name). Maybe just attack, or just move? Either way, you could probably get rid of the no wounds=death condition, since that's not making a ton of sense thematically to me.

Soul Devour happens before moving, and for good reason. Taking control of a figure is more powerful than just destroying a figure, which is why restrictions can be high. Getting to roll 6 times in a turn to take over a figure is too much, IMO. And as for your defense question with them, I would probably put it at 3. I'd also watch the cost, because right now they're strictly better Shades of Bleakewoode.

I agree with sf (again) that they should probably all have Phantom Walk/Stealth Flying, from a thematic standpoint at least. Maybe that can be a part of Shadowmade? That does mean that mechanically they'll have to be balanced accordingly, since the Hounds can become nasty assassins with that.

Also, Astroking has a good suggestion in rewording the bonding so it doesn't restrict future design space like Kurrok's does.

[Sir Heroscape]

Great feedback. I agree with just about everything that was said. I’ll have some new cards to look at tonight.

As for species...does Animata work? I’d prefer staying with something already established but If not Shadow works too.

I’m glad you mentioned about Phantom Walk. I already wanted to do add it but felt it was too many powers...great idea to combine it with Shadowmade.

[Sir Heroscape]

Changes have been made. Take a look see. Thoughts? I'm still curious to know your thoughts on using Animata as the Species?

Overall, I really like the subtle changes I made after hearing some of your feedback. I think the designs are a lot tighter.
Notable Changes
-Xundar: 1) can now insta-summon but must be unengaged. 2) He only need clear sight to activate the shadows
-Shadow Demon: 1) are now a class of Minion 2) special attack reworded and modeled after the goblin cutters 3) Shadowmade is made more thematic 4) normal flying, instead of stealth flying b/c it would be redundant to have stealth flying and phantom walk-like abilities. Normal flying is just fine because he can still disengage while flying based off of the shadowmade ability
-Shadow Hound: increased cost to 40pts because it's clearly the stronger, tank-like assassin of the 3 shadows. Also made it so they can only get +2 max to movement and attack. Also took out the conditional self-kill clause
-Shadow Wraith: changed the special ability name to reflect more of the change to an Enslave type ability like the Mindflayer because taking over heroes with potentially an army of wraiths just seems a bit much. I like this direction much better as well. also lowered the defense to 3.






Those who have participated in feedback: @Astroking112 @BiggaBullfrog @Leaf_It @superfrog

[Astroking112]

I'm not a big fan of Animata as a species. In my eyes, It evokes more of a physical object being given life than a magical substance like shadows, and it also runs into some problematic synergies with the Ebon Armor and the Sentinels of Grax.

I like the change to the summoning mechanic--it feels a lot more unique than Kurrok now. That said, I do think that you could go even further by changing up the stats a little bit. Either pricing him a little differently or shifting around his life/defense ratio would do some good for making him feel even more distinct.

As a minor nitpick, I'm not a fan of the essentially Phantom Walk + Flying combo on the Shadow Demon. It would be weird to use Stealth Flying if Shadowmade also gives disengage, but it's also weird to see it separated like that. It just feels a little off to me, and fixing that would necessitate changing the wording of the power.

Other than that, these are looking nice. Soul Manipulation feels a lot better than using Soul Devour, I think, and it looks like it will now have a more consistently felt impact on the game, even if only by a little bit.