The Pre-SoV Workshop

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Agreed.

@kolakoski I try to utilize this thread only when I’m getting close to submission to he SoV for a unit and need either to make sure I catch something before it’s too late or simply get some other angles looking at the unit. I’ll come here once I feel I’ve made a tight design with playtests to back it up.

Sorry, I forgot.

[Scytale]

The Drow + Ashra heritage is an example of "trying to hard" to fit into canon. Backstories don't need to be complicated. Why can't he just be an Elf assassin from a D&D world?

I agree that it feels off to have multiple defensive powers, but that may just be this unit's unique point.

More than anything, a design like this suffers from being "just another medium standalone fantasy hero." We have lots of those in the game already and they're easy to design. In C3V we have decided to tap into this realm sparingly as it's already overused. A unit like this needs to bring something interesting to the table to get much support.

[Pumpkin_King]

Hey folks. Wanted to see some opinions about this guy.



I’ve felt that the Tomb Skeletons (of both types) needed a little oomph. I’ve played the Warden a couple times in games with small amounts of skeletons, and I’d like to play him in a larger game. He plays okay, and his abilities so far get across the theme of a larger ‘boss’ skeleton that is still a mindless and expendable soldier. In fact, an earlier version of this design was uncommon - I wouldn’t be opposed to going back to that version, but availability is an issue.

My main concern is if his two abilities are worded well, or too broadly, so to speak. I wanted him to include both types of Tomb Skeletons. His Patrol does work with all Guards (which I don’t think will pose a problem - a guard based army isn’t going to be broken by a hero with a movement ability) but Rally currently only effects the two Tomb squads.

I also understand that “reanimation” is a theme used by the Utgar skeletons, but I felt that the theme here was unique enough that it wouldn’t matter as much.

[Scytale]

I like the overall design, though I'd prefer it to be an Uncommon Hero. The abilities are fitting and useful, and the stats decent, though a tad strong for the points plus the other functions.

I don't mind the use of Guards on one and Undead Guards on the other. In fact I like it that way. I can't help but think "Rally the Guard" deserves a more undead-flavorful name, though.

Still, I can't help but worry about its order marker value. An attack of 4 isn't bad, but not great either, and the chance to bring something back is poor. That makes it mainly useful late game, but then Eternal Patrol isn't useful. Have you considered an aura effect? Maybe change Rally the Guard to be an instant regeneration (ignore wounds) effect.

[superfrog]

Hmm.

5 spaces is more than the move of either squad, so I'm a bit thrown by that.

The movement bonding is okay, although it slightly overlaps with the TSA's existing movement power.

The reanimation doesn't bother me at all.

I do like the idea of a 4a/4d figure that's a bit beefier to go with the Tomb Skeleton( Archer)s.

Part of me wonders if you could combine the two powers into one, like this:

Eternal Patrol
After taking a turn with [this] Tomb Warden, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 6-17, you may place up to two Undead Guard Squad figures you control adjacent to [this] Tomb Warden. If you roll a 18 or higher, you may place up to two previously destroyed Undead Guard Squad figures you control adjacent to [this] Tomb Warden.

[Pumpkin_King]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!


Scy, I actually also prefer this guy as uncommon. What would be the expected availability for an uncommon hero?


I think that would help its OM value, as well. I think also that I would increase the chance to bring something back by a bit, maybe even 11 or so. TS/TSA are even easier to kill than the SoA, so a high chance to come back would really help.


SF: I really really like that version of Patrol, and the idea of combining the two powers into one. That could potentially allow for a second simple offensive/defensive power. The only thing that I'd change is making the movement portion effect any medium or small Guard, and then making the reanimation part effect undead guards.


Would the "movement" portion of that ability (as opposed to the current "move each X spaces version") pose problems? As worded it functions like a teleport.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Pumpkin_King

Scy, I actually also prefer this guy as uncommon. What would be the expected availability for an uncommon hero?

Depends on the final design, I suppose. If you'd normally only field one, not much different than a Unique. If you want to field a lot, then more like a Common.

[Pumpkin_King]

I would guess probably 1-2 per game.

[superfrog]

You could easily add a LOS and number of spaces restriction in my version. I just left it out because I was lazy and didn't want to hammer out the wording in my head.

[Sir Heroscape]

Hi all. Pretty excited about this prospect. It's been a long time since the Einar have seen the game table, but with Empress Kiova's brother, General Kuah, we have a significant addition to the ranks of Einar's Kyrie. As the general of the Kyrie, he inspires the Imperium in battle. General Kuah takes great pride in his elitist soldiers and enacts swift vengeance on those who fell his warriors.

I've done some initial playtests and he's looking pretty solid, but will need more testing to iron out how he performs more on his own and with different point value builds.


He adds a significant buff and synergy to the Imperium and Kiova, but a necessary one. His ability is like Spartacus in that alone, the Imperium are okay, but with their leader they become a force to be reckoned with. Don't so easily dismiss his ability as OP either or underpriced as you'll notice that in a 500 point game, the most you'll get out of them is General Kuah and Imperium X2, with 100pt left over to round out the rest of the army. While they kinda run like a Steamroller with few but strong, they still struggle to have enough points left over to balance the army core. Though Kuah is making them a little easier to field, he's not graduating them too high to become a broken army build. So far their power level has been increased, but again the amount of points you invest makes them extremely valuable and difficult to recover when you lose 2-3.

As far as the figure goes, there's A TON of availability. He's around $1 or less and you can find him just about anywhere. The figure is Heroclix Thangarian from the DC(?) line I believe.

Looking for general input on the overall design. I've had good success with both his abilities, and they have played out extremely well so far in providing a more fun experience with the Imperium and a thematic presence of their General joining the ranks and avenging their deaths.

[Astroking112]

It's nice to see someone else interested in helping out the Einar Imperium; they definitely need it if they're going to see more consistent playtime. Since I've tinkered around with my own ideas for improving them, though, I'm of course probably a little biased, so feel free to take whatever I say with a grain of salt.

Unfortunately, inspiration doesn't really do much for me. It feels almost too on-the-nose as a way of boosting the Imperium, acting as a simple all-around stat boost for an overcosted unit. With gladiators, it stood out as being unique (Spartacus inspiring common soldiers to rise up and exceed their limits), but I'm not sure why trained soldiers would gain the same exceptional boosts from their leader. At the very least, I would prefer a more Disciplined flavor, perhaps reworked to be slightly more engaging than the normal inspiration.

I'm not a big fan of interrupting turns--I think that can get very messy very quickly, especially with squads--which is a pretty big turn-off for me. As it's currently worded, I'm not sure if play is intended to resume with the turn of the player who was interrupted, or if General Kuah is meant to end their turn(s) prematurely.

Is there a particular reason why you opted to give him Flying instead of Stealth Flying like the other Einar Kyries?

[Dysole]

I'm pretty sure Scytale is going to give a hard no to nesting turns within turns. IAmBatman had a solid explanation for why it's a bad idea and I'm sure Scy will agree. I like the basic idea you're going for, but he would basically obsolete Kiova as I feel somewhat confident that power set is worth a lot more than 120. On top of that, it very much reads like a "fix it" unit rather than a unit that helps the EI more subtly.

~Dysole, who would be absolutely terrified of 6 move stealth flying 4/4s with double attack.