The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Soundwarp SG-1]

I personally quite like the theme on Bol, though there's a good chance he's not going to make it through the inner sanctum because 'that's not how dnd would have done it back in good ol' 1978' or the like. Doesn't need the last bit about revealing order markers in Sneak Thief, makes it sound like you reveal the oms immediately or something.

Don't really have anything to say on the Beakface.

[dok]

Bol:

I like the design quite a bit. The three powers fit together nicely and communicate theme well, and the right box stats fit. Designing to compete with Isamu is the road to madness; you just gotta do something that makes sense, and this does.

An Einar rogue doesn't bother me too much, but a tricky Einar goblin rogue seems like it's pushing it. And "the bio justifies it" is a nonstarter from my perspective; I want the theme to be adequately communicated by the card and the mini.

Beakface Archer:

Feels a bit too much like a hero pretending to be a squad for my taste. It has one power that says "move some extra figures" and another that says "attack with an extra figure". (Yes, I know we did the pathfinders in C3V. I didn't love it then, either. I don't want our 10 point heroes to try to be Isamu, and I don't want our common heroes to try to be pathfinders.)

[The Dewk]

Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1

I personally quite like the theme on Bol, though there's a good chance he's not going to make it through the inner sanctum because 'that's not how dnd would have done it back in good ol' 1978' or the like. Doesn't need the last bit about revealing order markers in Sneak Thief, makes it sound like you reveal the oms immediately or something.

Thanks for the feedback!

But I'm afraid I don't know what you mean when you say "that's not how dnd would have done it back in good ol' 1978". Are you echoing others responses of "Einar Goblin Rogue" is stretching it/not in line with classic Heroscape? If so, do you feel he would fit in a different "good" faction?

The last bit in Sneak Thief can be removed, no problem. Does simply cutting "and reveal them on Bol's card instead." keep it clear? I actually got the wording from Rygarn, but you're right in that it doesn't work as well, because it can be multiple OMs, rather than just the single OM that Rygarn is manipulating.

Originally Posted by dok

Bol:

I like the design quite a bit. The three powers fit together nicely and communicate theme well, and the right box stats fit. Designing to compete with Isamu is the road to madness; you just gotta do something that makes sense, and this does.

An Einar rogue doesn't bother me too much, but a tricky Einar goblin rogue seems like it's pushing it. And "the bio justifies it" is a nonstarter from my perspective; I want the theme to be adequately communicated by the card and the mini.

Thank you for the kind words. I'm pleased that you feel that he is different enough from Isamu that they aren't just straight comparisons.

Many others have echoed your reservations about his characteristics. Would a tricky goblin rogue fit better in Aquilla? That is really the only other "good" general he would fit into, I think (plus the first Rogue was an Aquilla unit).

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by dok

Beakface Archer:

Feels a bit too much like a hero pretending to be a squad for my taste. It has one power that says "move some extra figures" and another that says "attack with an extra figure". (Yes, I know we did the pathfinders in C3V. I didn't love it then, either. I don't want our 10 point heroes to try to be Isamu, and I don't want our common heroes to try to be pathfinders.)

Fair point...though I think the change to Improved Flocking will give it enough of a unique ability that people will be excited to play it. I mean, other common heroes like wrmlings bond or have Bonding synergy with other units (like swogs, dumetefs etc) so I'm really not too concerned with your point...especially because I'll be making the ability change that Scytale suggested (which was more along the lines of what I was going for anyway).

[BiggaBullfrog]

Originally Posted by The Dewk

Many others have echoed your reservations about his characteristics. Would a tricky goblin rogue fit better in Aquilla? That is really the only other "good" general he would fit into, I think (plus the first Rogue was an Aquilla unit).

I feel like Ullar would work as well. He already has the fantasy thing going, has tricky units, and a Rogue isn't out of line for him.

[wriggz]

Bol is neat, but there is nothing on the card to suggest he is "good" and a lot to suggest he is bad. At is core classic scape is very simple when it comes to tropes and that is something SoV tries to maintain. A figure design must stand on 3 legs - Figure - Stats/Pliability - Theme. Everything on card screams Utgar/Valkrill, not listening may be a misstep. Other than that, it is a little hard to get excited about a 10 point figure. Sneak thief is pretty innovative. You could likely just give him 3 attack/1 defense, and drop the other 2 powers, adding climb and wash your hands of it.

Beakface Archer – I love what you are working towards. The Improved flocking is really cleaver (Not surprising) and with Glide makes a great Raptorian build. I think these guys could also be useful in clean up as well as early development, which is a great design. Not a huge fan of adding evasive, I like them as cheap additions, evasive can make them the back bone of your army. I prefer Archer as your class and Skittish as Personality, since it keeps him from ever getting muddied up with synergies.

[Sir Heroscape]

Current version. As is I think the 3 defense gives them a little more staying power and a better chance against other range figures. Evasive I feel like is more thematic for fast melee units that are trying to close in on the opponent. An archer needs to take time to focus their shot and therefore is susceptible to return fire. So I kept the specials simple and increaded the defense by 1. At 30points they may be a bit pricey (playtesting will tell), but the Improved Flocking definitely has its benefits and could create some really interesting a fun gameplay.

[Scytale]

I don't really like the name "Improved Flocking." Yeah, I know I was the one that came up with it; I just threw it on there as a placeholder. Seems that others here like it though, so maybe it's not as poor as I think.

[kevindola]

Do you want a beakface archer to move 12 spaces and then attack? Probably need a caveat that an archer moved by improved flocking can't attack, or take a turn with that order marker.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by kevindola

Do you want a beakface archer to move 12 spaces and then attack? Probably need a caveat that an archer moved by improved flocking can't attack, or take a turn with that order marker.

Just add an "other." "... move up to 2 other Raptorian figures ..."

[kevindola]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Just add an "other." "... move up to 2 other Raptorian figures ..."

Does that have precedent with common heroes? You would have to announce the activated Archer first then, correct? Or is it like the common squad rule where you can move two with flocking and then pick any Archer not moved.....

[Kinseth]

I feel like there is a missed opportunity to add some synergy to the units.

Beakface Sneaks wanna move up into battle.
Archers want to hide behind the lines.

Why not a power that does something like.

After revealing an order marker on this Beakface Archer, before taking a turn with this Beakface archer, you may attack with X other beakface Archers where X is how many Sneaks that are Engaged/Within X range of enemy figures.

I am simply brainstorming an idea, but I'd like to see more synergy with Sneaks.