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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment


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  #2833  
Old October 16th, 2018, 09:21 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Can you give some insight into how he played in testing? What kind of armies did you run him in?
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  #2834  
Old October 16th, 2018, 10:59 PM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Can you give some insight into how he played in testing? What kind of armies did you run him in?
During the playtest, I did 250 points, my playtest thread shows which armies. When I do conduct more playtests, how many points should I use.
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  #2835  
Old October 16th, 2018, 11:00 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Points don't matter quite so much as the other figures in the armies. The question I'm getting at is where do you see Gilliam fitting in an army?
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  #2836  
Old October 17th, 2018, 12:15 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Points don't matter quite so much as the other figures in the armies. The question I'm getting at is where do you see Gilliam fitting in an army?
It depends what army your using at the time. Gilliam can be your trump card, if you didn't get the Iron Golem and you don't see other figures that get two automatic shields. He is 15 points less than the Iron Golem & Gilliam has 3 lesser attack and is unique.
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  #2837  
Old October 17th, 2018, 12:31 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
FINAL GUARD
If Gilliam is the only Guard that you control, you may add two automatic shields to whatever is rolled.
Why would you ever, in a hundred million years, ever, ever, ever play this version with another Guard in the army?

When you playtested him, did you ever have other Guards in the army? Why???

A few pages back, I thought there was something interesting in this custom. Now I can't remember what that even was, and I wonder if its creator thought about this new power at all.
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  #2838  
Old October 17th, 2018, 01:59 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
This is where I'm at with these guys. After close to a dozen playtests and some more tweaks I think they're looking pretty promising as they stand. Thoughts?

Notable Changes:
- Hounds have to target non-adjacent figures
- Hounds down to 3 Att
- Xundar activates within 8 spaces but no sight restriction
- Xundar summons within 3 spaces and no sight restriction
- Xundar 130pts (from original 120)
- Binder's moved to 30pts (though I may even move to 25 due to almost no attack potential and their main purpose is positioning and helping with the synergy stacking)









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  #2839  
Old October 17th, 2018, 03:48 AM
Heroscaper 101 Heroscaper 101 is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heroscaper 101 View Post
FINAL GUARD
If Gilliam is the only Guard that you control, you may add two automatic shields to whatever is rolled.
Why would you ever, in a hundred million years, ever, ever, ever play this version with another Guard in the army?

When you playtested him, did you ever have other Guards in the army? Why???

A few pages back, I thought there was something interesting in this custom. Now I can't remember what that even was, and I wonder if its creator thought about this new power at all.
I made some changes to Gilliam, he now has 4 attack and 2 defense.
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  #2840  
Old October 17th, 2018, 10:16 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Heroscaper 101, please stop abusing this thread.

Sir Heroscape, great changes to the shadow faction all around. Great polish work.

Before a submission, there are a couple of rules problems that would be best to iron out.

Shadow Hound -- Shadow Hunting, as written, has the "reliant on an uncertain future condition" problem. What if the Shadow Hound takes falling damage during the bonus movement? It then fails to "end its move adjacent to the chosen figure," and thus would not be allowed to have moved the extra space at all and wouldn't have died. I didn't call this out before because you're using a variation on the (problematic but official) Charging Assault. That's ok, but only if you're using the exact wording it does. Unfortunately you're adding an extra condition onto it which muddies it. I think that extra condition makes it more problematic for Editing, but it could be cleaned up at this stage and made easily workable:

SHADOW HUNTING
Before moving a Shadow Hound, you may choose an opponent's non-adjacent figure. Add 1 to the Shadow Hound's Move and Attack values for each friendly Shadow figure adjacent to the chosen figure to a maximum of +2 for each. To use Shadow Hunting, the Shadow Hound must be able to end its move adjacent to the chosen figure and may not attack any other figure this turn.

Shadow Wraith -- Soul Manipulation has a turn-stacking problem. It is bad practice to allow a turn during another unit's turn. In this case, the Shadow Wraith's turn does not end before taking the bonus turn. It has to. Change "after attacking" to "after taking a turn."

Shadow Binder -- Not a rules thing, but the bit about being able to move your own Drow figure just seems out of place. I get the value of it, but it doesn't fit with the rest of the design or with the Drow faction in general (who are an unhelpful lot).
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  #2841  
Old October 17th, 2018, 10:33 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I'm still not a fan of a kurrOK clone. The shadows are shaping up nicely, but Xundar seem to lack Drowness. I would love to see you drop the summoning and give him a pellet like special attack with some bite by destroying a shadow. Healing rebirth powers are tricky and if you have to give up a turn fairly rare.
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  #2842  
Old October 17th, 2018, 12:42 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Sir Heroscape, great changes to the shadow faction all around. Great polish work.

Before a submission, there are a couple of rules problems that would be best to iron out.

Shadow Hound -- Shadow Hunting, as written, has the "reliant on an uncertain future condition" problem. What if the Shadow Hound takes falling damage during the bonus movement? It then fails to "end its move adjacent to the chosen figure," and thus would not be allowed to have moved the extra space at all and wouldn't have died. I didn't call this out before because you're using a variation on the (problematic but official) Charging Assault. That's ok, but only if you're using the exact wording it does. Unfortunately you're adding an extra condition onto it which muddies it. I think that extra condition makes it more problematic for Editing, but it could be cleaned up at this stage and made easily workable:

SHADOW HUNTING
Before moving a Shadow Hound, you may choose an opponent's non-adjacent figure. Add 1 to the Shadow Hound's Move and Attack values for each friendly Shadow figure adjacent to the chosen figure to a maximum of +2 for each. To use Shadow Hunting, the Shadow Hound must be able to end its move adjacent to the chosen figure and may not attack any other figure this turn.

Shadow Wraith -- Soul Manipulation has a turn-stacking problem. It is bad practice to allow a turn during another unit's turn. In this case, the Shadow Wraith's turn does not end before taking the bonus turn. It has to. Change "after attacking" to "after taking a turn."

Shadow Binder -- Not a rules thing, but the bit about being able to move your own Drow figure just seems out of place. I get the value of it, but it doesn't fit with the rest of the design or with the Drow faction in general (who are an unhelpful lot).
This is really good feedback, thank you! In regards to the Binder, I really only wanted them to be able to move Xundar in addition to opponents figures which is why I just kept it generic and said Drow, but should I just say "and Xundar" or is that also weird? I mean, overall in playtests it hasn't been game breaking and it's really nice to be able to reposition him when you need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I'm still not a fan of a kurrOK clone. The shadows are shaping up nicely, but Xundar seem to lack Drowness. I would love to see you drop the summoning and give him a pellet like special attack with some bite by destroying a shadow. Healing rebirth powers are tricky and if you have to give up a turn fairly rare.
I can see where you're coming from. Are you suggesting to remove the summoning entirely? or just to add in another special that adds more drow flavor? Because in truth, I've only won 2/10 playtests so far and even against some lower tier armies. I wouldn't want to give up summoning back shadows for a little more flavor (especially one that destroys shadows) when they are already pretty expensive and the army struggles with figure count when facing superior "numbers" of opponents.
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  #2843  
Old October 17th, 2018, 12:48 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
There's things to consider besides whether an ability is useful and balanced. I agree with Scy about the Binders moving Xundar. Whether it's "Drow" or Xundar specifically, it just feels tacked on.

I think wriggz has an interesting idea with dropping the summoning aspect completely. Not sure I like it, but if you think about it, Xundar has never really won a game because of his summoning. If he's summoning, he's probably already lost. Might be a way to differentiate him further from Kurrok. Again, not sure I like that change, and I definitely don't mind summoning being on the card.

I'm not sure you need the "Shadowmage" in Xundar's name. None of the other Drow have their magician titles in their name.
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  #2844  
Old October 17th, 2018, 01:16 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
This is really good feedback, thank you! In regards to the Binder, I really only wanted them to be able to move Xundar in addition to opponents figures which is why I just kept it generic and said Drow, but should I just say "and Xundar" or is that also weird? I mean, overall in playtests it hasn't been game breaking and it's really nice to be able to reposition him when you need to.
It's really nice to be able to reposition him--and that not a good thing, imo. One of the trickiest aspects of controller-based armies is dealing with positioning of the controller. Having to deal with that is a good thing, as both the player and the opponent can try to work around it. You are already giving him non-line of sight freedom, this just seems over the top. If you really want that much freedom, just give him a normal movement before taking a turn with Shadows.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I'm still not a fan of a kurrOK clone. The shadows are shaping up nicely, but Xundar seem to lack Drowness. I would love to see you drop the summoning and give him a pellet like special attack with some bite by destroying a shadow. Healing rebirth powers are tricky and if you have to give up a turn fairly rare.
I can see where you're coming from. Are you suggesting to remove the summoning entirely? or just to add in another special that adds more drow flavor? Because in truth, I've only won 2/10 playtests so far and even against some lower tier armies. I wouldn't want to give up summoning back shadows for a little more flavor (especially one that destroys shadows) when they are already pretty expensive and the army struggles with figure count when facing superior "numbers" of opponents.
I'm personally not concerned about the lack of Drowness, as long as Xundar isn't helpful to other Drow. He can be more Estivara than Pelloth. He does seem very similar to Kurrok, though. I don't know if that's really a bad thing, since the controlled units are very different, but if anything dropping or replacing the summoning would be the way to go, as I suspect it's not used much anyway.
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