Sir Heroscape's customs

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by UtahScott

Liking the direction of this one.


Savage Taunt seems redundant, though (He's already a Savage)...
What about Bloody Taunt, Lethal Taunt, Bloody Provocation...

I mean the ravagers have "Savage Cry", so I'm not terribly worried. In fact, originally I had it named just Taunt, but then I added the Savage part because it was more than just a Taunt... The image for me was Veguzza savagely killing a soldier, then visibly laughing and taunting over other comrades to come and "get some"

[All Your Pie]

I actually agree with US here. I feel like Savage Cry is named what it is because it activates a Savage figure, so the name calls out the power’s synergy. It feels a little odd for Savage Taunt to do the same without having any inherent synergy of its own.

[UtahScott]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

The image for me was Veguzza savagely killing a soldier, then visibly laughing and taunting over other comrades to come and "get some"

I'm just wanting other phrasing that gets this point across.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Some passing thoughts for Vegeta:

I like the taunt direction. Fits the mini much better.

I agree with a name change for Savage Taunt. When a Class/Personality/Race is used in a power name, is usually (not always, I think, but usually) is referring to synergy, and since this power wouldn't be losing anything by a name change to something like Cruel Taunt, I think it's better to swing that way.

I like the idea for a clause that taunted figures need to be unengaged prior to moving.

There was a suggestion for having a d20 roll for squad figures, but I think that, if anything, there should be a d20 roll for Unique Hero figures, since they're more impactful gameplay-wise (moving Raelin, other cheerleaders, or an important bonding hero is way strong) and it makes more sense theme-wise (heroes would probably be more able to ignore Veguzza's tea bagging and keep the big picture in mind). Not certain that it needs that d20 roll, but that's what I would keep my eyes on.

There needs to be some kind of restriction on movement for the taunt power so you don't have figures flying up or falling down 40 levels just to get near this guy. At the very least something like Barge Into Battle with a level restriction, though if possible I think a straight movement clause similar to Charging Assault would be best ("move X spaces, must be able to move adjacent to Veguzza"). Though that could get too wordy to be worth it -- worth at least seeing how it would work though, imo.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog

Some passing thoughts for Vegeta:
I agree with a name change for Savage Taunt. When a Class/Personality/Race is used in a power name, is usually (not always, I think, but usually) is referring to synergy, and since this power wouldn't be losing anything by a name change to something like Cruel Taunt, I think it's better to swing that way.

Fair points.
Here are some others I kinda like for the name change...
- Cruel Taunt
- Loathsome Taunt
- Vile Taunt
- Barbaric Taunt
- Sadistic Taunt
- Cold-Blooded Taunt

There was a suggestion for having a d20 roll for squad figures, but I think that, if anything, there should be a d20 roll for Unique Hero figures, since they're more impactful gameplay-wise (moving Raelin, other cheerleaders, or an important bonding hero is way strong) and it makes more sense theme-wise (heroes would probably be more able to ignore Veguzza's tea bagging and keep the big picture in mind). Not certain that it needs that d20 roll, but that's what I would keep my eyes on.

Yeah I'm not there yet. I really think that that would cause more restrictions than necessary to pull this ability off. As-is there are at least 2 conditions that must be met, likely 3 when using him with Ravagers: 1) Ravagers must get a kill 2) Veguzza must get a kill 3) Taunted figure must be unengaged. I agree, it seems extremely powerful, BUT also consider this...if you've got Ravagers around, do you have them focus on getting the key attacks on the hero like Raelin or have them attack something else so you can Taunt in Raelin? If I can get attacks on Raelin, I'd take em, but then she'd be engaged and ineligible for the Taunt. Even then, Taunt doesn't activate until Ravagers kill and then Veguzza kills, so I would rather get attacks on Raelin now, than bet on Taunting her after 2 kills. Of course the ideal situation is that Ravagers kill something else, Veguzza kills something else then is still close enough to Taunt in Raelin, but again, the Taunt is the last thing to activate, so the opponent will still be able to retaliate and potentially take out Ravagers before the next turn.

There needs to be some kind of restriction on movement for the taunt power so you don't have figures flying up or falling down 40 levels just to get near this guy. At the very least something like Barge Into Battle with a level restriction, though if possible I think a straight movement clause similar to Charging Assault would be best ("move X spaces, must be able to move adjacent to Veguzza"). Though that could get too wordy to be worth it -- worth at least seeing how it would work though, imo.

Good point, yeah that would be weird. I'll have to see...but I kinda do like the Barge Into Battle idea. That seems appropriate.

[Sir Heroscape]

So I'm just about ready to submit Agrith-Naar as seen above. BUT, here are my concerns:

1) I'm afraid Quad attack will scare judges and C3V members alike when voting and playtesting. In truth though, while it has incredible potential, you have to play it right in considering his SbB ability which kills his own units or himself. If you use him to rush in and assassinate a key figure, it's also very likely that key figure has been protected enough that nearby units can retaliate and attack back. That, or if he tries to attack multiple figures, he'd have to engage multiple figures in order to capitalize the potential. Kevindola has done a great job in playtesting him with me some, and it's been nice to see that even he's had his fair share of tough decisions when deciding how and when to use A-N. That of course doesn't speak anything to the units design other than it's not always the best idea to use him every turn simply because he has to be able to return more than he's taking in that turn. He feels well enough balanced to submit as-is...but I fear an outcry for OP would come...and I'd hate for him to run the gauntlet just for judges to nix him per his Quad attack was too powerful at times, which they wouldn't necessarily be wrong. His attacks can do some serious damage, but during the course of the game, he levels out by how much he kills his own units or himself to take his turns.
Okay so that's the first thought...

2) Acolytes get stronger as their bonding options get stronger. So far the only option that doesn't really have a weakness is Morgoloth. Skull Demons only have 1 attack, so pretty possible to kill an Acolyte if the attack misses, and Corvor blows up anything including his own guys and is a little slow and low def. So really the Demons are big baddies but with abilities that mitigate their overall power in combination with the Acolytes. Playtesting has shown A-N to have that same effect the way he is required to kill himself or another figure in order to take a turn. This is actually quite good at mitigating his overall impact on the game because of how much of himself or your own army you need to destroy to utilize his attacks. So while I feel he's balanced, I worry I'm adding another strong option to Acolytes and there would be an outcry of "OP!" The question will end up being, is his ability mitigating enough.

3) If I were to consider changes, I would simply change the attack power. Double attack would be fine, but then he's too much like Morgoloth. A special attack could suffice, but then I'm worried about room on the card, and special attacks tend to be significantly stronger - unless I did like 4 att of 2 and made his base att 4 - but then his stats are just like Morgoloth again. So here's what I'm considering...

OPTIONS:

1. Submitting him as-is and trusting my playtesting
2. Changing the direction of the design by making his stats more unique to the units role as a demonic hunter. I'm considering doing something much more unique like 8life and 0Def, leaving his Quad att and then changing his personality to Mindless. The idea behind that statline would be that he's solely a tool. A Demonic being, summoned for one purpose: to Mindlessly hunt prey. As a Mindless Hunter it does give him an image and role of indicriminate killing and disregard for personal safety (hence the 0 def). The 8 life would ensure he's got some time to deal some damage, but I'd also likely drop his points to 80-90 because of how quick he could/would go down with focused attacks. I'm not sure this is my favorite option as it would be significantly changing the design, but it does have some merit and I like the uniqueness of it.
3. Just change the Quad Att to a Special Attack where he can do 4 att of 2 (and maybe increase his base Att to 4).

Would appreciate some help in thinking through this! Thanks!

[superfrog]

I would submit as is.

[Scytale]

I have a general aversion to adding a multi-attack or multi-target hero to a bonding squad. That's dangerous territory, especially if they're all decent attacks. It's not unprecedented, though.

Otherwise I don't have any issues with it. Have you considered allowing Sustained by Blood to work on "friendly" squad figures?

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I have a general aversion to adding a multi-attack or multi-target hero to a bonding squad. That's dangerous territory, especially if they're all decent attacks. It's not unprecedented, though.

Otherwise I don't have any issues with it. Have you considered allowing Sustained by Blood to work on "friendly" squad figures?

No but that’s an easy add. Any particular reason outside of being a little more thematic?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

No but that’s an easy add. Any particular reason outside of being a little more thematic?

Fun. Imagine munching on your annoyed teammate's squaddies.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Fun. Imagine munching on your annoyed teammate's squaddies.

Haha, gotcha. Yeah I could see that. Makes for a fun change fo sho.

[Sir Heroscape]

Here's the latest version. The only differences from the last were I changed the power name and added the clause with the level restriction so we don't have people being taunted off of a castle.