Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

[Typhon2222]

Good people, I'd like to nominate my Apocalypse Now.

Apocalypse Now
Uses: 2 M:TCB, 1 BftU, 1 TJ




The map had its genesis in @MegaSilver 's Marvelous Map Contest (which it won).

If I'm honest, I love the map's aesthetics. Its central idea — and central feature — was to put the two warehouse ruins close enough to each other that they appear to form the four walls of a single structure, evoking a blasted, scarred, military compound of concrete and barbed wire amidst the encroaching jungle. I discovered that putting the ruins in close proximity to each other also blocked LoS and channeled movement in interesting ways.

Other notable features are the areas around the glyphs: cascading tiers of height above the glyphs help produce dynamic play there, while adjacent jungle bush helps protect glyph-grabbers against ranged snipers (something I'm a big fan of). Reports are that the glyphs thus stay relevant, and that the whole map often sees play.

It's been through many versions (no surprise!), thanks to many helpful comments, feedback, and suggestions for improvement from @superfrog , @Flash_19 , @Sir Heroscape , TonyStark, and especially @OEAO , @Chris Perkins , and @GameBear . Without their many refinements this map would be much the poorer.

So far it's appeared in 8 tournaments, including 2 since the last version was posted:
Mass Bi-Monthlies (11/5/22)
Louisville, KY Monthly Tournament (11/5/2022)
Mid-Atlantic Regional Scapers (11/12/2022)
Louisville, KY Monthly Tournament (11/26/22) (not listed — the organizer asked for WoS maps — but it was brought anyway)
Peoria IL Monthlies (12/10/22)
Wisconsin Monthly Tournaments (1/7/23)
NE Ohio Basement Brawl (4/29/23)
Utah Monthly June 2023 (6/24/23)

Final comment: TonyStark — a notoriously harsh cartographic critic — says that "it's a pretty dope map." So there's that.

[Arrow Grut]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Good people, I'd like to nominate my Apocalypse Now.

Apocalypse Now
Uses: 2 M:TCB, 1 BftU, 1 TJ




The map had its genesis in @MegaSilver 's Marvelous Map Contest (which it won).

If I'm honest, I love the map's aesthetics. Its central idea — and central feature — was to put the two warehouse ruins close enough to each other that they appeared to form the four walls of a single structure, evoking a blasted, scarred, military compound of concrete and barbed wire amidst the encroaching jungle. I discovered that putting the ruins in close proximity to each other also blocked LoS and channeled movement in interesting ways.

Other notable features are the areas around the glyphs: cascading tiers of height above the glyphs help produce dynamic play there, while adjacent jungle bush helps protect glyph-grabbers against ranged snipers (something I'm a big fan of). Reports are that the glyphs thus stay relevant, and that the whole map often sees play.

It's been through many versions (no surprise!), thanks to many helpful comments, feedback, and suggestions for improvement from @superfrog , @Flash_19 , @Sir Heroscape , TonyStark, and especially @OEAO , @Chris Perkins , and @GameBear . Without their many refinements this map would be much the poorer.

So far it's appeared in 8 tournaments, including 2 since the last version was posted:
Mass Bi-Monthlies (11/5/22)
Louisville, KY Monthly Tournament (11/5/2022)
Mid-Atlantic Regional Scapers (11/12/2022)
Louisville, KY Monthly Tournament (11/26/22) (not listed — the organizer asked for WoS maps — but it was brought anyway)
Peoria IL Monthlies (12/10/22)
Wisconsin Monthly Tournaments (1/7/23)
NE Ohio Basement Brawl (4/29/23)
Utah Monthly June 2023 (6/24/23)

Final comment: TonyStark — a notoriously harsh cartographic critic — says that "it's a pretty dope map." So there's that.

Hey, it looks really cool and I'm a big fan of your work.

Tonystark and this guy think it's pretty dope.

Edit:
Let me go through my reaction.

I needed a new map for a game day I was gonna have with friends.

Go to Wargrounds.

See Typhon post a map.

Love the name reference.

Love the simplicity with a twist of a under used terrain obstacle(THIS is where Typhon shines).

Realize I only have 1 MTCB.

Cry.

[dok]

Hey all, greetings from 40,000 feet. Home is behind, the world ahead.

I’ve had Mist and Shadow on my table for a while now, and I’ve gotten to play both casual games and tournament games on it. While the terrain set is reminiscent of Draugur, the shift from double tundra to double dungeon does change the flavor of the map somewhat. Overall it’s a more versatile terrain set than Draugur’s, so insofar as I grade on a curve for terrain, I expect more out of this map.

The combination provides a very large number of outcrops and glaciers to work with, and the map uses nearly all of them. However, there is clearly great care taken to not create choke points, as every outcrop has 2 open spaces between it and another outcrop or (with the exception of the two that are literally on the edge) the edge of the map. So the map feels quite divided out with many paths to tread, but there aren’t really any notable choke points. (Or “keyholes” where you can shoot between two adjacent glaciers, which always feels like a bug to me.)

Gameplay through the center of the map feels impressively dynamic. If you move through shadow, you’re giving up height, but you can cover ground pretty quickly. My biggest point of concern on the map was the level three height hugging the big glacier. On many maps, flanking around the big glacier can be a pain to manage, and I was concerned that parking figures on those spots would exacerbate that issue. However, figures set up in those spots don’t have the best sight lines, and I saw lots of opportunities to work around the sides. The map actually allows for some nice comebacks by overwhelming positions from new angles, if the stars are all alig(ned).

I also had some concern about the single level 4 spot that screams “Raelin perch”, but it’s quite exposed and a bit more central than you want it to be, so you have to really fight to defend the spot. Ultimately I saw my concerns about potential podding spots all fade.

I vote YES to induct Mist and Shadow into the WoS.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Mist and Shadow by @Flash_19


Mist and Shadow is a strong map. It has interesting height interactions, fun choices for developing your army, and just looks cool on the table. I've had a lot of fun games on it and I've been happy to have it at our local tournaments. A lot of games will let players experiment with fun strategies, make interesting mid-battle tactical decisions, and overall reward strong gameplay.

That said, were some drawbacks that caught my attention: the level 3 snow along the center glacier, the chokepoints around that central development area, the pocket shadow next to that level 3 snow, and the options for movement out of the start zone onto level 2.

First, safe, reserve height always pings my radar when looking at a map, but I've been finding more and more maps that I've enjoyed the feature on. The height along the central glacier is very safe, with only one spot that encourages attacking into it (the shadow hexes by the one protruding snow hex). This rewards defensive plays of moving up onto the snow and trying to make your opponent come to you. The two chokepoints around this area strengthen those defensive plays. It isn't tough for a player to block off approaches (especially with Raelin behind), making it especially tough on any melee that tries to attack in by minimizing real estate. Trying to spread out the screen with melee isn't an option here like it is on other maps because flanking takes you to lower ground and a lot of movement. If range tries to attack in (and the level 4 is good for this), Raelin or your choice of cheerleader is protected with the pocket shadow by the snow.

Moving out of the start zone with 5-move figures always felt like a chore as reaching level 2 is difficult after your first line is gone, and there are only 2 spots open to some of the figures behind that line. I recognize this may hurt me more than other players as I like to play the numbers game, but it did play into my issues above since it slowed development for an army crossing the map and gave the defensive army more time to shore up defenses.

Now, I don't think that any one of those issues alone would sway me to a downvote on the map. Some combinations of the issues probably still wouldn't. As stated in the opening, the map offers a lot of fun decisions and rewarding gameplay. Line-of-sight blockers are used well, the glyph locations play well (despite some congestion -- here it isn't as much of a deterrent), and even development out of the start zone can provide interesting decisions on when to push and when to slow your roll. It's a strong map. But when making a judgment call for if it ranks with other WoS maps (some of which shine past their own drawbacks), Mist and Shadow falls short for me. There's a lot of good, and it's really only those power defense armies that abuse this, but it has just enough issues in their combination that I couldn't bring myself to ignore them when making my decision. I vote NAY to induct.

[superfrog]

Great review.

I will eventually get the OP updated.

[superfrog]

Mist and Shadow has timed out with a 2-1 count, falling just short of the 75% required to pass.

Canary and Apoc Now have been added to the timer.

[superfrog]

Mome Raths by @Typhon2222



As Typhon noted in his submission, Mome Raths has some similarities to existing maps with the same terrain combo (more on that in a moment), but it particularly stands out by splitting the shadow rather than focusing it in the middle. That and the classic Typhon 24-hex suspensions :P

Mome Raths improves on The Borogoves (imo) by bringing the level 4 heights inside the 3-hex outcrops, which makes them more contestable. But the 3-hex outcrops on Mome Raths pose a similar issue for me as some of the central blockers on The Borogoves: they (combined with the height differences) make it difficult for figures anywhere vaguely central on the board to reach the edges (in this case, to attack the glyph).

Speaking of the edges, I never found the edge paths useful in my games, which meant the 4 jungle bushes deployed to that region of the map never boosted any defense rolls. I'm not sure that finding would hold up forever but those 4 jungle pieces seemed incidental to the map rather than a feature for armies to benefit from.

And then there's the other 4 jungle pieces, and how they interact with shadow. Obviously the jungle/shadow double buff has been done before, and I'm not one who thinks it's inherently problematic (heck, I just submitted a map with 14 such spaces, compared with 10 on this map), but I do take issue with the placements of them here.

8 of the 10 spots (the level 1s) are very yours/mine, making them a natural place to develop advancing figures. The problem there is that this 4-hex pool is too far from the action to reach some important spots (particularly the 3-hex level 3 perch). Really, both the best defensive spot (the level 1 4-hex shadow pool) and the best offensive spot (the level 3 3-hex dungeon perch) are far enough removed from the center that neither player really wants to continue development in a range/melee matchup.

I did find melee-melee matchups to be more enjoyable, and the 2-hex level 3 dungeon perch in the center makes fighting there very dynamic.

In general, Mome Raths is a well-designed map, but the isolated edges and overall distribution of development real estate mean that gameplay lacks enough momentum to be among the upper echelon of tournament maps. I vote to induct.

[Sir Heroscape]

looking forward to a flurry of reviews in the next two days :P

[superfrog]

Yeah we shall see. I know OEAO and Flash have said they’re quite busy this summer, but I hope we get some other votes from the rest of the panel. I have played all nominated maps except Apocalypse Now a few times so already thinking ahead to my next votes.

[superfrog]

Mome Raths has timed out at 0-1 and is not inducted.

[1Mmirg]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Yeah we shall see. I know OEAO and Flash have said they’re quite busy this summer, but I hope we get some other votes from the rest of the panel. I have played all nominated maps except Apocalypse Now a few times so already thinking ahead to my next votes.

My apologies. I led a Study Abroad this summer and spent most of the summer out of the country (or at least out of town).

I hoped to get more done before I left, but I just didn't. I'll step it up again!

[superfrog]

Nomanisan by @Sheep



Nomanisan was one of the maps that intrigued me most from the ScapeCon II contest, so I’ve been glad to play on it more and think about it more for my WoS review. As Cleon noted in his submission, the lava field 7 hexes can pose a problem for mapmakers and for players to work around.

The footprint of this map is also dominated by 7-hex lava fields, but I think the placement of the 2-hex lava fields plays almost as big of a role in how Nomanisan feels.

First, the center is dominated by the 2-hex that Sheep placed there. In general, I like this feature (as I did on Mome Raths). The 2 ladders attached to it provide a little extra intrigue. They also, crucially, make the center very difficult to traverse. Putting a pair of Rats on those two spaces is very strong defensively (jungle-boosted level 3, difficult to take adjacent height against) and entirely shuts down movement through the center.

It’s also unfortunately difficult to develop into the center in the first place, due to the placement of some of the other lava field 2-hexes. The level 3 ones protruding from the left lava field 7-hex slow development for figures with less than 5 move leaving the SZ. In fact, the single grass perch, the water hex, and the jungle bush right there outside the center of the SZ line up to really make most initial central movement feel meandering at best.

I do agree with Cleon that the glyphs are not often meaningful on this map (not a problem per se), but that really just makes developing to the sides even more pointless. Battlements and water placement make it difficult to move onto/across the 7-hexes using anything other than the ladders, so staying level 2 is really the only realistic option in many scenarios.

Capping off all the development issues is the fact that walking large/huge figures are at a major disadvantage, having no safe level 3 spaces and having to work harder than other figures to reach the lava field height really doesn’t feel good.

I do think the concept of Nomanisan is admirable and the most ambitious I’ve reviewed for WoS but I think the various mobility challenges make it feel like you’re fighting against the map more often that not. I vote to induct.