Tournament Map Feedback Thread

[Foudzing]

End of 2023 map reports :

Scapecon East 2023 maps:

Bad Moon Rising @GameBear
Well I was starting to feel the level 3 plateaus were too strong, and in a Arrows Gruts vs knights Machup @Shurrig went to absolutely destroy my pod by brute force.
Very cool game, I think the map plays significantly better irl than online with battlements LoS blocking being a big feature of it. Not much more to say one of the best old maps for sure.

Remains of Clionesia:
Had 2 great games on Remains (2wins), making it a grand total of 4 tournament games I played this year on Remains and all of them were excellent. I can understand the slow devellopment being annoying but I feel this is a feature of the map more than a downside.

Platypus
Very good game on Platypus lost with Arrows Gruts vs Dwarves and Mezzos, my Ice Troll almost turned it around at the end healing 2 per turn, lots of interesting plays all around the map. A classic staple to me!

Wyrmwalk:
Another 2 great games on Wyrmwalk (1 win 1 loss), I should note that the map is long to cross and the level 4 doubles right outside the startzones are excellent spots for dragons, but besides this 2 very small downsides I think the map is excellent, very dynamic, tons of interestings choices.

Forest Fire:
My two games on Forest Fire (2 wins) were goodish, but in both of them, only 1 half of the map was used, I dunno I feel like the glyphs are too far from each other.
The map definitely pulls left for podding imo, with the ruin ruining a bit the right side podding abilities. But the big thing being the left trees acting has a wall with a vision hole in between actively helping pods, the trees are more effective at hiding pods (you can hide your Raelin quite well by hugging the trees) than hiding figures in the center. The solid lava also surprisingly helps podding and also kinda act as a wall making init switch plays very difficult.
The road isn't that useful it is very effective to go from left to right or right to left but you almost never wanna do that in an actual game also there is no interesting "end of road" spots and the pods can dodge road pretty easily. The middle is often left desertic.
I think that it is a decent map but that could see some upgrades also it's a map where which SZ you end up on is very important, depending on glyphs and because big tree =/= 2 trees.

Odin Wept: @Typhon2222
An excellent game on it (win), the 2 sides of the glacier were used to get to opponnent making the whole map plays very dynamically, litterally all the map saw figures.

Highways & Dieways:
2 games on it (1 win 1 loss) which started similar with 1 player podding in front of the river, but who ended up very different. Playing around the LoS blockers for the attacking player is very important. Super cool map with lots of choices on it, the classic.

Frostmire: @Flash_19
Great game on Frostmire, this map really shines in "multiples om cards" formats. I stll think the area in front of the startzone could be sightly tweaked to reduce podding abilities.

Fulcrum:
Only one game played on Fulcrum (win), I think the game was decent even tho having 9 range Kravs and Raelin was quite brutal for OEAO. I didn't play well (a lot of small positionning mistakes), I just stayed in my bottom right corner and won handily. Even with a Krav dying on a 2v6 from a cutter, really a machup check.
Heard a lot of talks about Fulcrum from players most of which I agree, see WoS thread.

Invasion:
Two games on invasion over the week-end (1 win 1 loss), one was excellent, one of the most interesting game I got to play the weekend, one very "meh" and quite frustrating but it was more due to me playing the map and machup wrong than on the map.
While Invasion has some flaws I still think it's one of the most original interesting and dynamic map.

Percolator: @Ulysses
Only one small 360pts game (win) on Percolator, which was a 95/5 kinda machup in my favor, map was still excellent. Whole map was used, lots of micro-positioning choices. Only heard good things about it over the week-end, very happy it is in the WoS, great induction.

OST5 maps:

The Broken Skyline Redux: @Sir Heroscape
Looking at it I would be afraid the layout of the map would make it very good for range (and hance very good for my army) but actually the road paving made an excellent job at making the Hydras go deep in the position. Excellent remake in my opinion, captures the feel of the original very well, quite similar to mine just a bit shorter nd without the "half ladders".

Sirocold: @Shurrig
So I gotta say I'm a big hater of the original lol, I think it's in my top 10 worst maps I played in tournaments.
My game on Siroccold was good but I really could see this map turning in 2-hills hell in some more classic formats, like so many of my games on the original, so I don't think it's a great map for competitive.
That's said even without Jungle I still think this is better for melee than the original because the layout of hills are better (more "surface area" for melee to attack in).
Valda was a great choice by Megasilver to make this map better, Wannok should be a BIG NO-NO on this map tho, imo glyphs should be Valda, Dagmar, Zawit, stuff help you move and make plays to attack a camping ennemy.

CCL finals maps:

Stygian Rift @Typhon2222
Another 2 games on Stygian Rift, and great games as always, best map evuuur.

Yngwild Pass @Sheep
2 games on Yngwild pass, one was a classic Yngwild pass game very cool lots of action everywhere, in the second one Sir Heroscape turted in the top left corner and used the crack in the glacier to let Raelin in the SZ and Q10 on the other side of the glacier, which is very strong setup. Definitely an unseen flaw of the map to me.

OHS54 map:
Feverstone Keep @Flash_19
Was pleasantly surprised by this map, great great map with plays everywhere on the map. Deserve to see more play!

Classic Scape league (random draft) maps:
Subduction @Ulysses
Honestly sightly disapointed by this one I thought it had more asymmetry. It's quite hard to navigate on the sides which is kinda a feature but makes range only go on sides and kinda camp in them, I think the map would gain a lot of value if the road lead a bit more to the sides.

Blackfoot @Ulysses
This map is smaller than what I thought it was, I also think it's sightly too range friendly with the road being hard to use effectively, and with the hills making the map vquite snowbally, sightly disapointed.

NightFall @Typhon2222
Great map even tho I lost on it, which is a hard feat to complete well done Typhon!

July @BiggaBullfrog
EXCELLENT simple RotV+VW map, the layouts of the solid lava heights super original and interesting!! Loved it!

OHS55 maps
Vulcan Ridge @Chris Perkins
Good map but a bit too range friendly for my taste, to many "speed bumps" and close heights for range to take advantage of (even tho I lost a melee vs range machup on it LOL).

Guts @Shurrig
The center is good but the sides saw no play in the game I played and also in several games I watched, alos I can see the level 2 swamp "line" next to the SZ being a problem.

[Sir Heroscape]

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you enjoyed the "classic" Skyline. That was literally my first video on my YouTube channel was playing on that original map...oh how the time has passed...

[Dysole]

Just wanted to say that while playing Betelgeuse. I'm not sure if I played on this one before, it feels like I might've played on it during a Sir H tournament I'm not sure. It does feel like a map that's going to be very good for any unit with blockers and high defense screens and I'm not sure the road or shadow center helps to mitigate that. The lava 2 hexes near the start zone don't feel like they're doing much to impact gameplay. But really my biggest complaint is putting glyphs on shadow. This makes it very easy to hold a strong glyph if you can get to it first. Not super great at this map review thing but I do think those factors make the map particularly good for anything that wants to kind of durdle around with a strong screen.

~Dysole, putting this down before she forgets again for the third time

[ryguy266]

Lincoln Seasonal IV concluded this past Sunday, and I got to play on four of the six maps setup that were requested by the mapmakers (unfortunately due to terrible weather we did not have enough players to warrant setting up all the maps requested to see play).

The maps I played on, and my thoughts on them:
Lousiana Hot Swamp by @Dunedain
I placed the move glyph and the Unique Attack glyph on this map when setting up. But despite having the move glyph and road, movement through the center didn't feel as smooth or as fast as I wanted thanks to the "bumps" in the road. I felt like the LoS blockers are done quite nicely, but I ran into some real trouble with my opponent's 10th setting up on the level 2 7-hex by their SZ, and pushing a few onto the safe level 3. One thing I think might prevent this turning into such a defensive stronghold, especially with Raelin, is to actually switch the level three lava on the edges back and push the sand to the middle. That way there is no immediate safe level 3 perches by your SZ, and I think they'd be much more contestable from both sides.

Compact by @superfrog
1x RotV maps feel nice for a TD who has so far provided the entirety of the terrain for enough maps to support the tournaments. The obvious comparison is Origin, and at first glance they feel similar. But Compact uses the edges of the map much better in my opinion, so that all hexes feel useful. Movement through the center is a little quicker, and movement through the edges is a little slower. I put Wannok and Dagmar on this map which drew attention to both sides. I also did not add TGs, which may affect how the map played. With only one game I don't have enough data to suggest minute changes. I do, however, have a bold request as a TD. 1x RotV maps feel hyper-competitive to me, and in that sense I generally prefer pure symmetry in some form. I would like to see 2 versions of this map. One with the real RotV terrain constraints, and one that has a purely symmetrical center and identical ruins. Typically as a TD I put identical ruins to smooth out sort of small advantage the larger ruin might provide, but because the center was not symmetrical I stuck with the suggested ruins. It's a change that matters probably 1 in 50 games, but a "Compact - Tournament Version" is something I would like to see, along with any 1x RotV that uses mismatched ruins.

Hawthorne's Edge by @Sheep
I liked this map, despite this being my only loss throughout the tournament. The height feels like a worthwhile investment while the road provides tons of pathing flexibility that were fully explored in my game. I do worry about the glyphs. The level 3 7-hex by each player's SZs feels like it would be incredibly easy for a ranged squad to keep an opponent's figures away from one glyph, should it be useful for them. The other side is also pretty easy for ranged squads to shoot down with impunity, and despite the glyphs on the map being fairly useful (Ulaniva with Migol is devastating), after my opponent lost two shades in attempt to hold it, we abandoned the glyphs all together. Unfortunately, I don't have any constructive feedback for how to improve that, but I'm not altogether sure it would be a problem, just a worry. Otherwise, well done.

Stechavan by @Shurrig
This was my second game on this map (after the update), the first one being online against Shurrig himself. With Wannok and Dagmar on the map both were hotspots. This map was streamed on my YouTube channel, and although the video connection wasn't great, there is a lot of gameplay on there. Against a weaker army I was able to control the roads quite effectively, and snowball from there. Lava maps are usually very dynamic and Stechavan provides, and with my limited games I don't have any feedback, but hopefully the author can glean useful information from the stream.

[superfrog]

Interesting thought about Compact. I do have a second version coming soon that makes the edges slightly more accessible.

For any map that is asymmetrical to accommodate ruins/different blockers, etc. I think TDs should always feel free to copy one side twice if they have the terrain available.

[Foudzing]

OHS55 maps

Desolation: @Flash_19
First time I played on this map, and yes it seems like a great map the startzones and area in front of startzones are super well made and make Raelin a bit less effective, you can go out and play the map or camp in sz or a mix of both, the choice is not obvious. I really liked all the possibilities this map offer.
And NO HEX SHAPE!!!

Alta: @Flash_19
First time I played on this map aswell, extremly classic Flash map lol, checks all the clichés hahaha, Battlefield 23, road and Mavel edition lol. I won on it so great great map.

OST 6/Hexicon II maps:

Bayou Bend @RainyDays
Already gave my thoughts on discord, I'll reitirate and summarize, I think the horshoe shape had potential, love the Wanok very far from the startzones and on level 2 also love that both glyphs are very far from each other.
I think map has potential but was too cloggy for my taste in almost all part of the map really, swamp being very hard to navigate into, road being 1 hex wide andthe big obstacle in fornt of both startzones extremly clog those area to the point it was funny in my game.

Ruined City @Leaf_It
Cool map, it's a quite big map and all the map was used which is a great point, the pillars were effective at blocking LoS and cutting the map in different zones.
My only complain is that the center is weird to play esp for melee figures with the 1 hex wide road being surrounded by 2 level 3 areas, I guess it's a feature of the map but I dunno I'm not a fan of it I preferred to go by the sides in my melee vs range machup.
All in one I won on it so it's a great map.

Gem @Cleon
I liked this map, even tho it's definitely range friendly, it's not to the point where it's problematic, also a bit cloggy but same not to the point where it's problematic.
All in one I liked this map very very orignal with the level 2 plateaus cut horiszontally by the big obstacles, and completely playable, I think it's hard to do better with just those sets.
Oh and I won on it, so great map.

[Shurrig]

Hey all, catching up on map feedback here. Here are my reviews of all the maps I've played on in tournament over the past couple months or so (not including OST, waiting for that season to wrap up before posting).

OHS S55 Delta Control Points (Delta)

Spoiler Alert!

- VULCAN RIDGE by @Chris Perkins : I’ll start off by noting that the aesthetics of this map are not my favorite. I just think BftU, VW, M:tCB is one of the least pretty set combinations, but it’s not a deal breaker for me. I’m also not a fan of the single line of asphalt forming those “<” shapes, I probably would’ve tried to find a way to break up those colors if everything on this map stayed the same. Subjectivity aside, the map actually played okay. Development wasn’t the best, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing on here. The map sort of forces you to develop your front line left or right out of the start zone, which I found neat. Things I noted in my game were that armies tended to shift right since there is immediate access to shadow and level 3, but I felt that the level 2 run of asphalt on the left side was pretty good for range. In fact, a lot of play centered around the asphalt perches scattered around the map. I don’t think this is bad, though ideally I’d like to see more figures risking height on a lava map. The only level 4 is right in the center and that part of the map didn’t see play until the very end. In all, I think Vulcan Ridge has some flaws, but none that are game breaking. I’d be happy to play on it again, but I’d be curious to see what Chris could do to incentivize getting onto lava more as well as create a little more level 4.

- GUTS by me: I agree with @Foudzing here, I think this map is a bit too wide. There wasn’t much incentive to move over to the glyphs in my recent tournament games, and while I didn’t see much abuse of that level 2 swamp peninsula, I saw many WTF armies just never move Raelin and hardly develop at all out the start zone. Not a big fan of that, even if that army didn’t win every time. I think it’s fine as is, but don’t be surprised if an update comes out for this one soon.


- DESOLATION by @Flash_19 : This is a rare Flash map that doesn’t feel like a Flash map. It’s very good, as most Flash maps are, and I’m glad I got to play this game in person because the Virtualscape render does not do it justice. I just didn’t expect it to be as good as it was for a map this big and with split start zones, and I was pleasantly surprised by how my games went in practice and in tournament. I will say, if I played this map in tournament again, I would hope less powerful glyphs be used. Valda on this map decided where a lot of the action happened, and with a map that has split start zones I could see other powerful glyphs becoming a problem.

- ALTA by @Flash_19 : I was looking forward to playing on Alta the most out of all the maps in this OHS season, I just really liked the aesthetics of the grass peeking out of the concrete. It didn’t disappoint either; shadow was interesting, the level 3 run out the left is a cool feature and far out enough to not be abusable, and the interactions between road and height seemed well considered even if I was sort of wishing for more level 4 here. Enjoyed my games and can’t wait to play on it again.

MARS D.C. Winter Classic

Spoiler Alert!

- FENRIS: Development on this map is maddening, and intentionally so. No sane human would have put a water hex in between those two glaciers/outcrops out the right side of the start zone; no, only a mad wookiee could have come up with something like this. In all seriousness though, development hurts for a lot of army builds, and if you beat your opponent to the other side of the middle then you can easily make them take lava damage at the end of every round. A cool experiment of a map for sure, but creates too many unsafe/awkward development choices for me to want to play on it in tournament again.

- FULCRUM (update) by @Vydar_XLIII and me (original by Dignan): I don’t think this version fixes all my gripes with Fulcrum, but it has just a couple tweaks that correct things while keeping the spirit of the original map.

- ORIGIN by @Flash_19 : Origin is a modern classic. Yes, it is big, but pathing is easy enough to where I don’t always feel the true footprint when playing. Very good map and my favorite single RotV for sure.

- KING IN THE NORTH by @AndreThaGiant : The one game I played on I couldn’t glean much from; it was, unfortunately, quite a one-sided match due to my drones failing to roll below a 13 for most of the game. However, I did notice that the dungeon side saw zero play in my game save for the one drone I put on that side’s glyph. This unfortunately a common issue for a lot bilaterally symmetric maps and is hard to balance, but right now its not doubt the snow and grass side is where armies want to go.

- MIST AND SHADOW by @Flash_19 : I quite liked Mist and Shadow. At times I felt the length of the map more than I would’ve liked to, but the shadow hexes on level one help with moving up the back line. Once you get to the middle of the map, games get very interesting and I love the way the height is dispersed amidst (a mist?) the shadow. Still, I think six movers have a better time on this map due to how much easier it is to get to that level 2, especially on the sides. Overall, very solid, I just wish it was about 2 hexes shorter in length.

Classic League XI- Random Draft (Delta)

Spoiler Alert!

- SUBDUCTION by @Ulysses : It was noted by myself and others on the discord the other week, but development on the right side of subduction is pretty rough. There are chokepoints and lots of lava you must contest, all of which the left side doesn’t really have to worry about. Also, while I do enjoy the subtle asymmetry, I’m not so sure it’s working for me. The left/top side of the map seems a lot easier to navigate with how the level 4 is dispersed, So if I’m starting on the red side I feel like I have a significant advantage. If the glyph on the left/top is good, I worry that games will just snowball more and more from there.

- BLACKFOOT by @Ulysses : I think Blackfoot was one of, if not the prettiest map to come out of the BoV Redux contest. Before playing it I had high expectations, and unfortunately it fell short of what I had hoped to see. I do think the shadow is well placed, but the center is very fast and also suffers from the “two hills’ issue. I think this issue could be alleviated if it were at all possible to lift some of that center up a level; however, I know that the terrain requirements here are limited and therefore may be impossible.

- NIGHTFALL by @Typhon2222 : Nightfall is very good, but I noticed a couple issues in the games I played/watched recently that I wanted to note. One, the sides, while dynamic, feel a bit far away from the action. It can feel quite bumpy trying to get there and makes it pretty easy for range to camp on the furthest edge of the map. Two, I didn’t feel that the road did that much. Sure, it helps taxi figures between hill, but otherwise it’s doing less than I would like to. It’s a map I would be more than happy to play on, but with just some minor knob turning could make it very good.

- JULY by @BiggaBullfrog : I like this map a lot, It’s probably my favorite RotV/VV combo map I’ve played on. Sometimes the middle feels a tad bumpier than I would like but it’s never terribly in my way. I’d be interested to see how using same sized-ruins affects gameplay but I really have no complaints. Very solid job by Bigga here.

- BETELGUESE by @Sir Heroscape : I don’t love how wide this map feels. The canyon in the middle, while a neat feature, can create situations where opponents can kite their way around the map without much trouble. That, and the added fact that the glyphs are on the very edge and on shadow, I worry they become too hard to contest if they’re too good. I think flipping the shadow and lava seven-hex to where the lava is on the edge and the shadow is adjacent to the road might actually fix some of the issues here, but the map may still be too wide even still. Still, a fine (and pretty) map as is, just barely doesn’t quite do it for me.

- RECEDING WATERS by @GameBear : So, while I dislike the aesthetics of Receding Waters (I’m looking at you, start zone), I can’t deny that my game on it was very enjoyable. It’s very much a function over form kind of map, and I don’t have much to say other than it was a pleasure to play on. Height’s well distributed, easy to develop, and the entirety of the map saw gameplay. Out of all the new maps I’ve played these past couple of months, Receding Waters has to be one of my favorites.

[Foudzing]

Classic Scape league (random draft) maps:

Betelguese: @Sir Heroscape
Another great fun game on this map, I think this map is perfect for janky formats like random draft. I kinda agree with other who said it's was kinda hard to move horizontally and that it is range and fly friendly, but I still think it's a great great map. I wouldn't change anything I think change to enhance the horizontal movement would be a hit on the originality and gamplay of the map. We just have to agree this is arange friendly map and that's allright.

Receding Waters @GameBear
I dunno how to feel about this map, one way there was action all over the map and interesting choices, and one way I felt movements were kinda clunky, but which is interesting to vitually increase the size of the map and kinda needed for such a small map.
So all in one not a bad map I just feel range have a bit too much of good time on this map.
Oh and I got Zelrig which felt a bit like cheating with multiples Z-Bomb possibilities turn 1. Kevindola tried his best to deny it but it just wasn't possible.

OST6 / Hexicon II maps:

Guts @Shurrig Good game on Guts and THE SIDES WERE USED (a bit), due to glyphs being very strong in the machup, but the solid lavale rocks on the sides still weren't point of interest. I like this map, it's basically is a modern If you Can't take the Heat, looking forward the new version.

Jank Tank special event / Hexicon II maps:

Gem: @Cleon Another good game on Gem, we played on the new version which swapped on rock outcorp and on single water hex to better match the symmetry with Hive. Nifl glyph (vision reduced to 3 spaces) was super interesting in the machup. Game was much more "aggressive" than last one we really pushed into each other cause it was melee vs range (Nsc vs Vmechs) and then the roles were swapped I had to play melee into range (Anubians vs Kravs) close to endgame.
I'll just double down and say this is a great map, I wouldn't change anything about it, very original and very playable.

Bayou Bend @RainyDays
I think new version is definitely better even if it does lose a bit of it's originality.
Not sure that there is anything interesting to note in my game tho as it was airborne domination into kravs domination into Vmechs domination. I treally came down only to ranged unit but it was fault of format and machup rather than the map.

Thermal Shock by @Vydar_XLIII
Well I'll just double down and say this is a great and original map, I wouldn't change anything about it. Thank you Vydar for this awesome job! Some peole seem to think it is very range friendly, I don't think so.

Pigeonhole by @Sheep
EXCELLENT 1xBFtU map, really does perfectly what a 1xBFtU map needs to do, really stellar map with that few sets.
Action superfast packed, interesting micro positionning choices, macro positionning choices, great!
I honestly thought it wasn't possible to make a map that good with only 1xBfTu and 24 spaces startzones! Congratulations!!


Thank you all for your maps!

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

Pigeonhole by @Sheep
EXCELLENT 1xBFtU map, really does perfectly what a 1xBFtU map needs to do, really stellar map with that few sets.
Action superfast packed, interesting micro positionning choices, macro positionning choices, great!
I honestly thought it wasn't possible to make a map that good with only 1xBfTu and 24 spaces startzones! Congratulations!!

I agree whole-heartedl! Congrats, @Sheep , on a stellar 1x BftU map.
Until you created Pigeonhole, I thought my own Anvil was the best single BftU map out there. But I think your Pigeonhole has replaced it.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

I agree whole-heartedl! Congrats, @Sheep , on a stellar 1x BftU map.
Until you created Pigeonhole, I thought my own Anvil was the best single BftU map out there. But I think your Pigeonhole has replaced it.

Extremely kind words from both of you!

Maybe you noticed already Typhon, but Pigeonhole's startzone is a small adjustment from Anvil's. Thank you for your pioneer work and passion for 1x BftU!

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by Sheep

Extremely kind words from both of you!

Maybe you noticed already Typhon, but Pigeonhole's startzone is a small adjustment from Anvil's. Thank you for your pioneer work and passion for 1x BftU!

I'll note this is with the treasure glyph version that you and I worked out.

I highly recommend that version!

[superfrog]

S56 thoughts:

Alien Underbrush (Panopticon, mod. OEAO)
Was not a fan of this map. The level 3 height is too easily accessible and not easy enough to contest. 4/5 jungle-backed level 2 spaces are within 2 spaces of the SZ. It's a map that begs for turtling. Having the glyphs on level 0 was fine, even the jungle was pretty helpful there. The map also came off as too wide, the wings (level 2 triangles) hardly saw any play in the games I played/watched.