[AotV] Unit Mechanics

[Astroking112]

I just skimmed through everything that we have in the pipeline currently to get a quick update on it all. Nothing's finalized yet, but it should be useful to get an idea of the different ideas being tossed around, especially in terms of seeing what kinds of holes we might need to keep an eye out to fill in the future.

Here's a quick overview of where the project is at right now:

Pod 0 Units:
Eldrazi Ruiner - Design
The design has a direction and we're just working out the name and traits before passing him on.
He currently has a multi-targeting Special Attack and the capability to pull in figures closer to him.
Statline: 8 Life, 5 Move, 1 Range, 6 Attack, 4 Defense, roughly 200 points

Jace Beleren - Design
We just need to settle the name at this point. Tetsuo Tyrell? Jydel Gibson? Who will win? Tune in next week to find out.
The design has a form of Mind Control against Unique Heroes and a self-wounding power to boost his own attack.
Statline: 6 Life, 5 Move, 4 Range, 3 Attack, 2 Defense, roughly 100 points

Leyline Phantoms - Design
There are still a couple of directions that we're debating.
There's a consensus for some kind of limited teleport and a defensive power (leaning towards anti-range of some sort).
We've already got some ideas for the statline, but that might change based on the final powerset we settle on.

Honored Soul-Guides - Design
The design is aiming to briefly let you bring back your Unique Heroes that die near them for one last turn.
Also has Stealth Flying.
Statline: 2 Figures, 5 Move, 1 Range, 2 Attack, 4 Defense, roughly 50 points

Pod 1 Units:
Gideon Jura - Design
The direction is towards a defender type of a unit that can pull opponents in and divert their attention.
Statline: 6 Life, 5 Move, 1 Range, 3 Attack, 4 Defense

Chandra Nalaar - Design
The design seems like it'll be focused on an offensive Special Attack similar to Mimring's Fireline.
Statline: 6 Life, 5 Move, 7 Range, 3 Attack, 2 Defense

Ob Nixilus - Design
The impression that I got was that there is not yet a complete consensus, but I saw indication of a negative aura and a negative "Viking Spirit."
I'd be surprised if this doesn't have flying.

Ukushia Pride - Design
The consensus seems to be to use one of the sets of markers from Shadows Over Innistrad for limited offensive boosts to the squad, along with a negative water power.
Statline: 3 Figures, 6 Move, 1 Range, 3 Attack, 5 Defense

Glyphs:
Glyph of Recall - Testing
Revives a previously destroyed squad figure.
Glyph of Knowledge - Testing
Before rolling for initiative, you can look at a random Order Marker from each opponent.

Terrain/Scenarios:
We're still discussing the overall setting for AotV, but early consensus seems to be pointing towards the Sea of Sand. The Cryptolith Destructible Object design is pretty solid at this point, but we need to settle some more of the story before giving it a proper name.

Scenarios won't be entering the design stage until we have some more units nearing completion and a firmer grasp on the overall setting.

[NecroBlade]

Awesome recap, Astro. And all that in about 4 months!

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Not entirely sure if it's doable, but would it be possible to get an Ullar squad out of the AotV figs? Ullar squads seem to be particularly rare in the custom realms, and a unique squad seems just about unheard of. The Elite Onyx Vipers are the only official units I can think of, and I'm not sure the last time I saw a Ullar unique squad on a customs thread. I know we don't have a ton to work with, but maybe maybe maybe the phoenixes would work?

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince

Not entirely sure if it's doable, but would it be possible to get an Ullar squad out of the AotV figs? Ullar squads seem to be particularly rare in the custom realms, and a unique squad seems just about unheard of. The Elite Onyx Vipers are the only official units I can think of, and I'm not sure the last time I saw a Ullar unique squad on a customs thread. I know we don't have a ton to work with, but maybe maybe maybe the phoenixes would work?

Believe me, I really wanted to use the tree dudes as unpainted Ullar units. But, the C3V is using them. At least there are 2 elf squads we can play with after the set is done.

[Astroking112]

I'd also like to see an Ullar Unique squad for more variety in generals, but I'm not sure how realistic it is for our main set. The two squads that immediately came to mind for Ullar were the elves, who are unsuitable to our current plans, and the tree golems, which C3V is already using. I would think that Nissa Revane will be an Ullar Hero at the very least, but it remains to be seen just how many other units would end up under him in this set.

As for the pheonixes, I believe that they fit best under Einar. They were associated both with royalty and purple coloring, and the red color scheme won't clash as much with Einar's orange as it would with Ullar's green or the other generals (I also don't like having the pheonixes follow Utgar--despite their similar appearance to the Fire Elemental--given that he's the evil general). I could see the Pod with them settling on another general and making it work, but they just feel like a natural fit for Einar to me.

[Pumpkin_King]

I'd argue still that we should include the tree men in our second-tier "unpainted figures" set.

[Astroking112]

If you're talking about the Pummelroot Elemental, then I disagree. The sculpt is already being used by C3V, and we're trying to maintain compatibility with them and the SoV. Double-dipping on a sculpt goes directly against that.

[Pumpkin_King]

With the second-tier ones we discussed they’re already not SoV-compliant, is the thing.

We’ll cross that bridge later though.

[Scytale]

As I've been exposed to more units in Design, I'm starting to see a disturbing trend.

Here are part of this project's Mission statement (emphasis mine):

3. To create balanced units that are relatively simple, easy to understand, and feel at home in a self-contained set together. Units will come from a wide range of themes, and capture the diversity of theme Heroscape is beloved for.

So far the stuff sent to me to Edit for Pod 0 has not fit this definition. The Honored Soul Guides' Last Will, Testuo Tyrell's Mind Jack, and Ozuul's Gravity Pull are not what I consider relatively simple. I won't pretend that we're doing any better in Pod 1 either.

It seems to me this goal is a very good one if we're aiming to create an entry point for new players. Those players would want Syvarris and Thorgrim, not Mika Connour and Eltahale. But we appear to be leaning toward the latter, not the former. I think we need to take a good, hard look at the overall direction and decide if we're doing the right thing.

[Pumpkin_King]

....yeah. Might be worth a re-evaluation.

[Astroking112]

Thanks for pointing this out, @Scytale . I think that it's a very revealing trend: the majority of these units on their own don't seem very complex, but taken together it's noticeably more complexity than RotV. Looking at the entire Pod 0, I feel like Tetsuo Tyrell is our simplest design. It's worth taking a look at how we can simplify these designs to make the entire batch more approachable.

My first reaction is that Ozuul's current direction can work, albeit streamlined, and that the Honored Soul-Guides may need to go back to Design. Project Velnesh is in a weird space right now, with a strange power set that's similar to the Ninjas of the Northern Wind but with its own twists.

Meanwhile, I think that Tetsuo himself can't be simplified any further, and the Mind Jack is something that even new players will be able to pick up on, but he should of course be under scrutiny as well.

[flameslayer93]

I don’t think Gravity Pull is that bad. You pull small/medium figures closer to Ozuul. The rules for it could be a bit much however.

I do agree that Mind Jack, Last Will, Double Fireline, Energy Whip... could be a hair much. I’m willing to take a step back on the designs thus far. Its just a matter of figuring out what is both novel and simple. Good call, Scytale.