[AotV] Theme, Lore, and Thormun's Journal

[lefton4ya]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

...Crypoliths...
I think that the context of these being on Valhalla naturally implies that if they're ancient, they were always there. We could say that an Archkyrie summoned them from Arctorus or the like, but that kind of begs the question of why in that case, since if they're old pillars then there are probably better candidates elsewhere.

It does give me the absolutely hilarious image of Vydar stealing the pyramids from Earth, though, which is worth something.

If we don't want to go with the sci-fi theme, then I like setting them in some desert region of Valhalla and expanding the lore through scenarios there. Looking at the map of Valhalla, I think that we could set Arena of the Valkyrie around the Sea of Sand for some interesting storytelling. The name in such a case should be similar to the Power Glyphs and units that originate on Valhalla in that case, IMO, where they sound vaguely Norse.

@capsocrates , @All Your Pie , do either of you have any thoughts on the name for the towers (or greater location for the Master Set)? Just checking to see how we're all feeling about it.

I think we need to have a consistent theme and backstory to AotV units and maps and love the post above about first figuring out WHERE the story will take place in Valhalla - either a name already on the map or a new name we make. Then create a storyline that can actually influence the figures from Name and personalities and Generals to the actual powers and overall unit design. I think we can design units without name or left box stats until we figure out storyline, but I would rather do them in tandem as one will influence the other and it will force overall consistency.

I like @Astroking112 's suggestion on using the Sea of Sand (found in West part of map) but am welcome to other suggestions.

[flameslayer93]

I don’t see why the location of AotV will be relevant to the designs of the non-Valhallan units. The ones who are ultimately decided to be Valhallan, sure, because it can be reasoned that they live in the desert and dark swamp like climate available in the box.

Granted, most units make sense in the location (Fire units, water spirit, statues), not all of them do (humanoids need constant sources of food). But that is mostly based on what we can use from the box rather than a design decision. Imo, let the general themes of the units be acceptable in the desert region rather than trying to consciously design the units around the region. Any questioning about why a werewolf won’t starve to death or get heat stroke can be resolved in scenarios or just given the same logic as why Deathwalker 9000 can’t blow up ruin walls.

But, yeah the Sea of Sand area works fine for me. We can even use the coastal parts of Jutanguard and Crumland as additional scenario regions and let them explain the road on the cardboard flats in the third box, along with the dark swamps.

[Astroking112]

I'm obviously a fan of using the Sea of Sand, but I agree with flameslayer. Outside of maybe a handful of units, I'm not really expecting many of them to originate from Valhalla. I don't want the Master Set's location to limit our designers' creativity, especially since Rise of the Valkyrie and Swarm of the Marro already set a precedent of just having a lot of cool units summoned from various places.

That said, I wouldn't mind taking a slightly more blended approach with the way that Swarm of the Marro did things, where there is a specific reason that these generals are doing this behind the scenes. The easiest answer is that another Wellspring has appeared isolated in the Sea of Sand, but we could also play into the lore of Thormun's Journal and the 15 amulets if we want (perhaps the Cryptoliths are similar mysterious artifacts that might lead to the other amulets or wellsprings). Some simple reason like that gives us plenty of reason for each general to send some new troops out to secure the area, and we can explore that more through scenarios.

I don't like calling the weirded out tiles (the dark purple ones from Shadows Over Innistrad) swamp. We've already got swamp terrain, and it looks pretty different. I'd like to tie them in to the story behind the Cryptoliths (wherever those things originated from) and have some scenarios focusing on that. They feel like they would be a good setting for the final scenario in a campaign to me.

[All Your Pie]

I don't have much to comment on the lore side of things, other than I agree that a thread like this to discuss it is a good idea.

Some sort of mysterious change happening to a desert area, possibly involving a wellspring, seems like a decent enough premise that works well with the terrain that we're using.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I'm obviously a fan of using the Sea of Sand

Makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Outside of maybe a handful of units, I'm not really expecting many of them to originate from Valhalla.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

That said, I wouldn't mind taking a slightly more blended approach with the way that Swarm of the Marro did things, where there is a specific reason that these generals are doing this behind the scenes. The easiest answer is that another Wellspring has appeared isolated in the Sea of Sand, but we could also play into the lore of Thormun's Journal and the 15 amulets if we want (perhaps the Cryptoliths are similar mysterious artifacts that might lead to the other amulets or wellsprings). Some simple reason like that gives us plenty of reason for each general to send some new troops out to secure the area, and we can explore that more through scenarios.

I think it would be cool to explore something outside the wellsprings. I was just thinking the other day it would even be neat if the cryptoliths (ancient pillars) actually turned up in the same form on different worlds, and they were summoned to Valhalla or something to explore their mystery.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I don't like calling the weirded out tiles (the dark purple ones from Shadows Over Innistrad) swamp. We've already got swamp terrain, and it looks pretty different. I'd like to tie them in to the story behind the Cryptoliths (wherever those things originated from) and have some scenarios focusing on that. They feel like they would be a good setting for the final scenario in a campaign to me.

Definitely not swamp, since we already have that. I like the campaign finale idea, as well as the idea of creating scenario-specific rules for them.

[betawolf36]

I agree that the black side doesn't really work for Heroscape swamp. I like the idea of using the Sea of Sand, though. Perhaps the black side with the weird twisty vines is some sort of underground crypt. The campaign scenario could be trying to find ancient ruins in the desert, with the black side as a final location. It would also explain why the other terrain elements for it are just sand. With it being buried in a desert and all. The cryptoliths could be used to mark the entrance, beyond what other rules or powers they have.

[flameslayer93]

Originally Posted by betawolf36

I agree that the black side doesn't really work for Heroscape swamp. I like the idea of using the Sea of Sand, though. Perhaps the black side with the weird twisty vines is some sort of underground crypt. The campaign scenario could be trying to find ancient ruins in the desert, with the black side as a final location. It would also explain why the other terrain elements for it are just sand. With it being buried in a desert and all. The cryptoliths could be used to mark the entrance, beyond what other rules or powers they have.

I like this!

[NecroBlade]

Agreed, seems solid.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by betawolf36

I agree that the black side doesn't really work for Heroscape swamp. I like the idea of using the Sea of Sand, though. Perhaps the black side with the weird twisty vines is some sort of underground crypt. The campaign scenario could be trying to find ancient ruins in the desert, with the black side as a final location. It would also explain why the other terrain elements for it are just sand. With it being buried in a desert and all. The cryptoliths could be used to mark the entrance, beyond what other rules or powers they have.

This works for me. I like the idea of the Cryptoliths being markers pointing towards the entrance to some ruin or crypt; we could have fun with some scenario maps by making all of them point a specific direction to "lead" the heroes forward.

There should be a reason that everyone is searching for this crypt, though. Perhaps it could be tied to the appearance of Ozuul, who is large enough to be the "big bad" for the set? That's getting closer to the Battle for the Underdark and scenarios leading to the creation of Valkrill, though, so it might feel like treading familiar ground.

@NecroBlade 's idea of the Cryptoliths being a phenomenon on multiple planets is also interesting, but them being summoned for research purposes doesn't gel perfectly with them leading the way to a hidden crypt. The main way that I could see this working is if the dark sides were on a mysterious world, and the Cryptoliths acted as beacons to transport the explorers to this alternate location. That would work better as an origin for Ozuul and the little purple space shrimp, but we can always just leave them unrelated to the core campaign if we don't want to go that route.

[Pumpkin_King]

The idea I had posted in the discord a while back was that Arena of the Valkyrie was literally that - as a reference to the classic sci fi short Arena, by Fredric Brown, a mysterious figure (the Gamesman) promises control of his Wellsprings to those whose armies can best each other in his games. His "games" would be the scenarios, and the figures in the set would be the units sent by each general to try and claim some of the glory.


Just a random idea, take it or leave it.

[Astroking112]

Hmm. I'm hesitant to add in a mysterious figure such as the Gamesman. To do so in a Master Set implies that he is very important to the story--much like the Marro invasion or emergence of the Underdark earlier--and we realistically have no way of delivering a major pay-off or fleshing him out as a character outside of some scenario text. If we put too much emphasis on him in just this set and he appears nowhere else in the lore, then we run the risk of our story feeling too much like an inconsequential addendum.

My interpretation of the "Arena" was more broad, being just that multiple forces met at this location with conflicting interests that we can more easily tie into the greater story and still resolve. We can expand the lore of the Sea of Sand and tell an interesting story, but I'd like to avoid doing anything that feels like a major change in direction from where the official story was headed, while also avoiding feeling like the story doesn't matter to HeroScape at all.

Perhaps we could reference Vydar's betrayal after Wave D3 and say that now the alliance is on the verge of crumbling, giving a heightened sense of stakes for which side can find the new resources in the Sea of Sand first.

[Pumpkin_King]

That's understandable! I'm comfortable setting this master set in the Sea of Sand and telling some neat stories from there.