Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[wriggz]

I mean the target figure did not roll for shock damage. The D20 and deathborgs always create concerns, which the original design addresses, though some might find it metagamey

[Scytale]

We will consider this design to be a full resubmit.

For this new version of Nordlung, I vote to review. Auto-wound powers are always hazardous due to the existence of the Deathwalkers, and this version of the special attack seems custom-made to negate their existence. That may be thematic, but it's no fun for the DW player. It goes beyond that, though, as low-Life and high-Defense is common for Soulborgs, and this is nasty to all of them. Before there was counterplay by spreading units and relying on sturdy Defense, whereas there is no way to play around this version.

[Foudzing]

The image of Rujin card doesn't appear, is it me or the link is broken?

[Shiftrex]

Originally Posted by Foudzing

The image of Rujin card doesn't appear, is it me or the link is broken?

It appears fine for me.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Before there was counterplay by spreading units and relying on sturdy Defense, whereas there is no way to play around this version.

I agree that the former version allowed Nordlung's soulborg opponents more of an ability to avoid the d20 roll by strategically placing their units, and thus more player agency, which is one reason I preferred it and submitted it first. Unfortunately, it was found to feel weird by some. With that said, I'll withdraw the submission; I think trying to riff on the Omnicron Repulsors is proving to be more trouble than it's worth. I'll see if I can workshop something else in the pre-SoV thread. Thanks for the time.

[Scytale]

High Dune Scorpions by @Sir Heroscape and @Leaf_It

Valhalla could really use some more insects. I mean arachnids.

Balance

The High Dune Scorpions have a pretty great combination of 6 Move and 4 Defense, allowing them to get into the fight quickly and hold out well once they're there. But that Defense stat is somewhat misleading, as their underbellies are fairly weak. On the other hand, their 2 Attack is also somewhat misleading as they have a pretty consistent defense reduction ability. For a comparison we can look at the similarly-priced Axegrinders of Burning Forge, the non-bonding version. The Dwarves have a better attack and bonding as an option, and more defense with height advantage and less defense without. So a reasonable comparison, one that looks like it's probably in the Dwarves' favor on paper.

Theme

Venom is a must on a scorpion design, and I appreciate it not being anti-Hero. Real-life scorpions do have thinner armor underneath but not drastically so, but as a trope I can appreciate Underbelly. The high speed and lower attack fit the Heroscape insect mold, and having higher defense than other insects also makes thematic sense.

Creativity

While much of the design would be expected of a scorpion design, the shining bit of creativity here is Underbelly. While thematic in a trope-y way, it is a very simple power that drastically changes how the unit plays and leads to lots of challenging in-game decisions.

Playability

Playing the High Dune Scorpions feels nicely different than other melee squads. They are fast and not especially hard-hitting but they are pretty tough, but what's really unique is that they are somewhat afraid of high ground. Similarly, the opponent appreciates going after the weak underbellies from below when exposed, so fighting against is also fairly unique. Not that it's a fight over the low ground, per se, as the extra attack die is always valuable, but the High Dunes are content to remain lower to keep their underbelly protected. It's sometimes a tough decision whether or not to risk the counterattack to gain the extra attack die.

Other aspects of the design support their unique playstyle as well. Paralyzing Venom helps make up for their weaker Attack and their fear of heights, and their very small size often makes adjacent elevations protective shields against melee instead of disadvantages.

Overall they are nastier than you'd think based on the card alone. Almost too nasty... Paralyzing Venom is quite debilitating for many squads. Add in Estivara's sizable attack buff aura and they can really sting (pun intended). As I was playing I had a nagging feeling that the Venom rolls were a bit too consistent. I would feel better if the both target values were one higher, but as it is I can't really fail them as overpowered, just uncomfortably good.

I didn't like everything, though. Even after numerous games I kept forgetting to roll for Paralyzing Venom before moving. It just never felt natural to make the roll before moving instead of before attacking. It does matter, though, for the movement phase, and there is clear precedent with the Anubian Wolves (though in that case it more necessary because of the '1' roll). So I'm willing to except this issue as a me problem instead of a design one. Though I'm curious if other Judges will have the same issue.

Summary

The High Dune Scorpions are simple, thematic, and provide a unique gameplay experience. That's a real sweetspot for me. (Before I take flack, a card doesn't have to be a single-power card to be "simple.") There are, however, a couple things that nagged at me: Paralyzing Venom felt a little too consistent, and it always felt weird that it happened before movement instead of before attacking. This was a difficult decision, but even together those issues aren't enough for me to downvote.

I vote Yea to induct the High Dune Scorpions into the SoV.

[Astroking112]

Major F19 Submission
I've waffled on this one a bit because I like the ideas and themes here, and do want to see this sculpt used, but it definitely does not match the aesthetic of any Vydar Soulborgs that we've seen (who is one of the generals with a wealth of Soulborgs establishing his "look"). If this wasn't the sixth sculpt in a pack of five that VC already uses, then I don't believe that we'd consider it as heavily for Vydar.

I do also have a concern about how Scrambled Communications might penalize unique-based armies excessively (which are already generally weaker), especially since it doesn't hit armies with a single card and is otherwise going to be used most in clean-up, but I'd be willing to see how that plays out in practice.

I'd like to see this design tweaked to fit either a non-Soulborg theme or a different general's line, but as a Vydar Soulborg, I unfortunately am a to review.

Annunhounds Submission
I like leaning into the Wild Hunt motif, and the restriction on attack targeting feels really thematic for Hunter bonding. I do have a slight qualm in that the Cŵn Annwn theme does not come across very well from the card alone at the moment, but you make a solid argument for changing the pronunciation in line with other Feylund units. to review.

Jan Sobieski Submission
I feel like this iteration of the design runs the risk of overshadowing Sir Dupuis, largely due to actually bonding with the knights and a similar charging playstyle. Of course, Jan also runs the risk himself of being overshadowed by Alastair, and I'm not sure that the Knights are in need of a tanky alternative with a special attack.

From some initial research, I can understand wanting to make Jan follow Jandar to illustrate certain aspects of the character, though the mini and historical angle will likely lead to questions about Einar. That could also offer some opportunities for different synergy webs to consider with fewer direct comparisons, though it would lose out on some of the theme that you're going for. Alternatively, focusing more on the cavalry angle could be interesting. Just some food for thought.

My only real hold-up with reviewing the design right now is Evasive 2, though. Mechanically, it makes total sense for cavalry units. Thematically, it needs a stronger justification for Jan to have that power, and it stands out in comparison to the rest of the card. to review.

Jezabella Submission
A bard following Aquilla is a fun theme, but I'm partial to Dysole and Vydar's concerns about the name. I also think that the powers would benefit from a pass through the Pre-SoV Workshop to refine them.

Lyrical Inspiration is interesting (especially by boosting heroes more than squads), but 12 turns feels too high to start with. It might be worth using the markers for defense to burn through the stack on opposing turns before she dies, but otherwise, it's going to be better to use them on attack dice. Incognito might also buy her enough turns to use the markers "optimally."

to review, though I'd like to see a refined version of her back in the future.

[Scytale]

Major F15 by @Flash_19 has received 4 Nay votes to review ((Dysole, Vydar_XLIII, vegietarian18, and Astroking112) and is removed from the process.

Jezabella by @ogblaha has received 4 Nay votes to review (Scytale, Dysole, Vydar_XLIII, and Astroking112) and is removed from the process.

[superfrog]

Apparently I've been behind on votes to review, sorry for that.

to review Annunhounds.

to review Jan. General seems like it should be Einar and I agree with the other judges that Evasive is weak thematically.

[Shadowking]

I'll take him back to the drawing board for now then, but I have a couple follow-ups to the reviews on Jan first:

1. Is there any opposition to a Human Champion fitting under non-Jandar generals? I'm fine with it, but I was also fine with him under Jandar, so maybe I'm just not as picky at dividing the line between who gets what historicals. I do want him to keep the initial conceit of a mounted Human Champion though.

2. I had some versions of him with the Evasive power under different, more thematic names (and it tested decently well mechanically to me), but felt it was cleaner to just consolidate it under the name of an existing power that, to me, fit the theme based on the name alone (although I agree it's not nesc. a 100% perfect fit if you look at the other units with it and what they imply it has connotations of). If I go back to the drawing board it might end up getting cut regardless, but is the problem more with the mechanics or more with the naming here (or I guess both)?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Shadowking

1. Is there any opposition to a Human Champion fitting under non-Jandar generals?

Doesn't bother me.

Originally Posted by Shadowking

2. I had some versions of him with the Evasive power under different, more thematic names (and it tested decently well mechanically to me), but felt it was cleaner to just consolidate it under the name of an existing power that, to me, fit the theme based on the name alone (although I agree it's not nesc. a 100% perfect fit if you look at the other units with it and what they imply it has connotations of). If I go back to the drawing board it might end up getting cut regardless, but is the problem more with the mechanics or more with the naming here (or I guess both)?

I don't have a problem with either the use of the power or the name, if it's important to the design (is it?). I do not want Evasive with a different name.

[Scytale]

Annuhunhounds by @Blue Trails has received 4 Yea votes to review (Scytale, wriggz, Astroking, and superfrog) and moves forward in the process.

Jan Sobieski by @Shadowking has received 4 Nay votes to review (Dysole, wriggz, Astroking112, and superfrog) and is removed from the process.