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Maps & Scenarios Battlegrounds and scenarios |
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#37
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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Who said range even wants to move? 6-range figures can sit at the front 2 spaces of the 7-hex sand and attack both glyphs. 7-range figures can sit on the back two by the Jungle and attack both glyphs. And then, mind you, at that point if you have Raelin you don’t even have to move her to have her in position. Her cover up in the middle are going to be her allies that are fighting through. You only need two figures to lock down the middle. Yes, Rats or any of the figures I’m mentioning (6- and 7-range figures like 4/10th and Krav, Q9, Raelin, etc.), can do well if you know what you’re doing with them, but do you really want them having this much of an advantage? I’d encourage you to fix the Hive issue. And it is an issue. The Hive is a figure that can be drafted into a tournament army, and a tournament worthy map must include space for it. If not, that’s fine, it’ll just be a casual map. It’s not the worst issue of the map, but even if you balanced everything else, as a Tournament Director myself, I wouldn’t take it to a tournament without the SZs having space for the Hive. |
#38
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
I'm not sure what I'd think about Lost Road Marsh if the roads connected. I know I'd like it more than I do as it currently is.
Both maps are too range-friendly for my taste. It's a long slog from one side to the other, and Raelin in particular more than usually wrecks things. For myself, I wouldn't select either for a tournament. Lost Road Marsh is a beautiful map, though, and that's (to my mind) an important quality. |
#39
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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Range doesn't need to move much, but you're basically giving the glyphs away at that point. Lets say you pod up around the start-zone palmtree, and the sand 7-hex. You now have a road leading right to you, and bushes on either side to help developing melee. I have to ask how this situation is really any worse for melee than if the same tactic was used on Dust Bowl? If you have range on that map, you can just sit in your start zone and shoot everything that comes to you. There's very little to block line of sight, unless the figures are small enough to hide behind the battlements. I don't have any problems with Dust Bowl really, it's one of the maps I voted for, but I don't see it as any better balanced than this one. I really don't think that Lost Road Marsh is giving those figures as much of an advantage as you think it is. The trees on the middle force you to either let the opponent move their army up behind the tree while you wait on your sand 7-hex, or forces you to move your range up farther than you would normally want to, just to get around the trees. The advantage that range wants to have is distance, and keeping the forces that are able to get closer thinned out. The trees in the middle don't let this happen. You either have to engage at the middle, which puts you closer, or you have to wait while they move their whole force up to the trees, before moving it around them. Both of these options keep you from being able to thin the on coming forces down, while they develop towards you. It is surprising to me that you literally can't ever have it start on swamp water though it's base is made of swamp water. I just don't get this. Even Draugur made more sense to change than mine, because it was being placed on ice. You can't place the dang thing on the terrain it's thematically supposed to be on in the first place. I'm sorry but this is so incredibly stupid in my eyes. Of any criticism, this one is the one that actually makes me kind of mad. It's just so dumb. It's supposed to be on swamp water. If you can't place it on swamp water, then why is it's base made of swamp water, and not swamp grass? I would concede this point if the base was made of swamp grass, but it's literally swamp water, and you can even place it on swamp water. This is the biggest thematic break of anything I've ever seen in Heroscape. I don't care if this map is never used in a tournament because of this, I just find this issue so dumb that I really can't bring myself to care enough to fix it. I realize my response probably looks bad, but this is just how I feel about it. The spirit of the rules wasn't meant for this, even if the rules don't technically allow it. Again I'm sorry, but this is just a massively nit-picky thing in my book. My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#40
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#41
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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This also goes in conjunction with the rule that if a figure can't fit on a spot on the map, then it can't go there. If the Hive can't be placed normally somewhere in the Start Zone, then it can't go there, and technically the player would be forced to drop it from their army. That's the strict version of it, and that's how the BoV required things. That said, the BoV didn't allow uncapped wall sections, which are also against the rules. In the ARV, we've been allowing those. For the Hive, we'll be reviewing this map individually, and I don't think that that alone would make or break your map since we already allowed it in, but going forward we plan on being more strict on the ruling. Yes, it's a little limiting, and at time might be a slight aesthetic break. But so are most balance issues. Monthly Utah Tournaments in SLC!!
Maps | Customs | Battle Reports 10 Points Under Videos "I'll save myself some time and say I pretty much 100% agree with Bigga" ~Flash_19 Last edited by BiggaBullfrog; October 25th, 2017 at 08:26 PM. |
#42
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#43
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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https://www.heroscapers.com/communit...o=file&id=4717 To be clear, if it wasn't painfully obvious already, I do not like this version. It might seem small at first glance, but the map just doesn't flow as well with these changes. I do not personally recommend this version to anyone. (I actually do, now that I've had time to think about it.) EDIT: I changed this Hive version a bit to be more like the original. I didn't like how high the road next to the start zone was, because it makes it hard to climb out with 4 move figures, which are the figures that need the road the most. I also just think this update makes it look a little nicer than before. To address why I didn't do it like this to begin with; if you look at the the swamp water along the edge, in between the start zone and the glyph, that little dip prevents 4 move figures from being able to take that glyph in 2 turns. It now requires 3. To keep that even like I did with the initial Hive placement version, I had to move a lot more terrain around, but that messed with several other parts of the map. I've decided to settle with this because 4 move can still engage that glyph in 2 turns, they just can't take it. My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. Last edited by Leaf_It; October 30th, 2017 at 04:26 AM. |
#44
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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If you build a map with uncapped towers, it is the map maker who is breaking the rules. When a tournament director selects a map with uncapped towers for a tournament, people understand that the map is technically breaking the rules, but it is of no consequence to the players. They play as normal. But with this case, the person breaking the rules is different. The map builder themself is not breaking any rules, but it's the person who is playing on the map that technically has to break the rules to place their Hive on top of the Swamp. It's a subtle distinction, but I think that for a tournament setting you wouldn't want to put a player in the position of having to break the rules or alter the map in any way. |
#45
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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In fact, when a map-builder breaks the rules and allows uncapped towers, or doesn't add the 2nd level to the Warehouse, there are positive consequences for the players because that balances the map. Those rules, in a competitive setting, are overpowering for flying, range, and screens, but once they're broken, maps including columns and warehouses can be competitive (Ruins of Clionesia and Mayberry, for example). The BoV follows all of the rules and consequently, has no approved maps using a Marvel set and the one map with capped castle columns (Broken Skyline) is no longer competitively viable. On the flip-side, when a map-builder doesn't, by the rules, allow room for the Hive, that has negative consequences on a player using the Hive because that player has to drop the Hive. That then leads to tournament directors having to make an executive decision to allow the player to break the rules to accommodate for that player's army. I've said this already but I'll say it again, as far as Lost Road Marsh goes, the Hive issue isn't even the biggest issue (though I am glad it's getting the attention it needs to from ARV). There are other larger competitive issues that need tended to and that would be far more detrimental to it seeing a tournament table than just not having technical space for the Hive. |
#46
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those. |
#47
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
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My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#48
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Re: Leaf_It's Maps, and Scenarios
My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. Last edited by Leaf_It; February 19th, 2018 at 08:14 AM. |
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