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#385
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Savage Corridor: It's not hard to say a map is great. Similarly, it's not hard to say a map is... less than great.
But it's REALLY hard to determine when a map is good enough. Savage Corridor lies right on the bubble for me. Most of my concerns have already been addressed by my colleagues. First, I agree with superfrog's suggestion of including a ladder on each side to alleviate the little bit of two-hills problem it has. However, the two-hill issue is really minor, and this isn't a deal-breaker for me (and obviously wasn't one for superfrog either). I was wondering if someone would bring up the immediate dips outside the starting zone. I am complete agreement with Flash that I'm not a fan of that. I think the map is large enough to do without them, and I found them very punishing for slow melee. Range can shoot down at figures for multiple turns before they have to choose between ceding height or being engaged. However, this also isn't a deal-breaker for me (and it obviously wasn't for Flash). I really disliked the placement of the water. As dok accurately mentioned, it's almost always better to develop up the sides. The placement of the water to slow down central development would make sense if a rush works on this map. And I think a ranged rush can work on this map... assuming they're rushing up a side. Rushing the middle is not smart because it's too easy to get engaged. Taking a side, and the corresponding glyph, is a strong play by range because the road doesn't touch most of the height and doesn't threaten the glyph. A small, but relevant, nit-pick is the placement of the glyphs. It's pretty easy to deny a double-spacer from taking a glyph. While this isn't the most relevant thing in the world, this can be pretty punishing to Hounds, who do like to take glyphs (indeed, they're one of the few units that will take just about any glyph in the standard pool given to them- their army will usually include at least one unique figure who benefits from Ulaniva). Overall, this map works well. But I think it lacks something to make it stand out. As it is, it's a solid map that I've enjoyed and wouldn't really mind playing again. I don't have any quick fixes (beyond the ladders), but I think a revised version could flip my opinion from pretty good to really good. NO. Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
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#386
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Zephyr:
I second everything that OEAO said. Particularly with how the largest problem with this map is the obvious Raelin perch. That, by itself, is enough to downvote the map. I’ll also add that I rarely see the top half of the map utilized (though this is matchup dependent). The time it takes to get up the hill and situated in a good spot seems to allow the opponent too much time to develop and take control of the more valuable real estate on the board — aka the quickest route to the opponent. There is also some potential up top for some double base denial (forcing an opponent’s double based figure to wait for an initiative switch to try and catch figures utilizing the highest hexes), but I doubt that will ever be a large issue. The Swamps of Oighir Scath: As HS2010 himself has pointed out, the map has some double base denial issues on the edges involving the glyphs. I want to see that issue fixed, along with some tweaks to the outside edges of the map in general. I feel like the map has a pull to the left out of the start zone, and with the way the sides are set up, podding up on the left feels like too much of a viable option. The map can get a little congested as well, but I think a smoother outside edge near the glyphs would go a long way to help alleviate problems with congestion. I really like a lot about this map, but for now it’s a |
#387
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Flash told me he was about to withdraw Ashfall but I'm going to beat him to it.
Ashfall is a pretty good map. Lava and road are a good combo. But unfortunately the map doesn't allow you to move laterally except once you get to the middle section, and that can easily be clogged up. Too much molten lava in the development zones. for me, hope to see it again once you rework it |
#388
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
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I do in general like this map but I think any of the suggestions above would improve it. I also sometimes wonder if the map is a bit chokey, it might benefit from losing an LoS blocker or two, or getting some extra breathing room around the edges. to induct Swamps of Oighir Scath |
#389
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Submitting Arroyo.
Arroyo Sets: 1 RotV Used in: Utah Monthly - November 2019 Peoria Monthly - March 2022 Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#390
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Arroyo: I tried this map last spring/summer, so this is an easy review to write. No glyphs is always a bit of a red flag, but a good map can make it work.
The first and most minor issue is that 4-move figures hate this map. It's really tough to develop up with 4-move figures (and it isn't particularly easy for 5-move figures either). The middle isn't really a viable option- which is fine; I don't particularly enjoy maps that encourage a central rush. The left central water lake is definitely too big. Lateral movement isn't that bad on this map, but the lake is a problem; range can really kite melee around it. So the map boils down to the two sides. That setup can be fine if the sides are interesting. Here, the sides are basically just two flat slabs with a few pockets of height on them. The resulting gameplay lacks depth and difficult decisions. Arroyo is a fine map, but it doesn't have what I'm looking for in a WoS map. No to induct. Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
Last edited by OEAO; April 2nd, 2022 at 11:58 AM. |
#391
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Arroyo by Sir Heroscape
I've played this map a bit too, so a quick review here is easy - especially when @OEAO has already summed up my main issues with the map. I have nothing new to add, but wanted to repeat the problems I found particularly troubling: - 4 move figures really do struggle a lot on this map - There is no incentive to go to the middle - The lake to the front left (particularly when combined with the 3 movement required to get up to the plateau from level 1) is too hindering to melee units trying to reach ranged units on height - Gameplay feels too stale I wouldn't be sad to play the map at a local tournament, but I don't believe the map is as polished as it needs to be for the highest levels of play. |
#392
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
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Back in 2014~2015 I voiced a lot against Sirocco (in some neg-reg kinda post lol). I still can't understand how this map was included in BoV. 2 hills maps are okay if their hills are close to each other and not hard to attack into. A great two hill map example is Hellsgate. The only changes I would do to your post are: Flash Fire, Embattled Fen, Fossil --> NO to YES They are not in my personal top 5, but maps that have been played that much and still proved to be solid should be included imo. Fulcrum: YES to NO, can't really explain why, imo thinking what you have to do on this map depending on machup and army is too obvious. Will have some games on Turnmoil (first games in 3 years yay) will tell you how it went, looks like a great map. By the way, I won't submit it cause there is already too much maps under review, but we used Flooded Temple for the third time in french tournaments and for the third time in she delivered good playability, one guy had Airbone Elite and lost on it. Last edited by Foudzing; March 29th, 2022 at 02:04 PM. |
#393
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
^Forgot about that map Foudzing (=Hellsgate)! One of my favorites...Submitting now!
Hellsgate Sets: RotV, FotA Used in: Idaho NHSD 2018 Utah Monthly - Sept 2017 Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#394
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Hmmm, that one also fell off my radar.
Went back and read the BoV reviews and the two NO votes actually came from current WoS judges (1Mmirg and Dignan). Both reviews seemed to think that the 7 hex was too strong for the map, especially compared to the 5 hex that opposes it if the game has collapsed to one hill. Then again, some of the complaint was about not knowing glyphs ahead of time and being screwed over by setting up on a side with a crappy glyph. Modern tournament play usually reveals glyphs before placement which is what M_W intended and mitigates the issue significantly. I think one big issue with the map is that the SZ split is exacerbated by the river, and the two SZ pods are very unequal in size. Not feeling enough to vote at the moment but those are my initial thoughts. |
#395
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Re: Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread
Quote:
It's basically my go-to map when I have playtests to do. Quote:
Tho if your opponent takes this 7 spot and shot at your SZ you are in deep trouble, but it's because either you lost hard map control in the middle, either you slow rolled too much in your SZ, so kinda deserved. Also something I noted while playing on it, is the left side path to the "ennemy" 7 hex spot is surprinsgly fast. You can quite easily send a big melee figure to mess everything up there, or rush the spot down with your map control figures before the opponent get to settle a nice pod. Last edited by Foudzing; March 30th, 2022 at 04:55 AM. |
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