The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Heroscaper 101]

I am sorry that I used the same sculpt as Kantono Daishi for my custom ninja squad the Blood Mist Ninjas. Just wanted to use them since I have their miniatures. It seems that the world of heroscape is lacking squads, the ninjas have the Ninjas of the Northern Wind and gladiators have the Capuan Gladiators. When it comes to sites that has 50+ miniatures available.

[superfrog]

No need to apologize.

[Arch-vile]

I've been workshopping my old Jeb Vandalay custom to see if I can make it SoV-compatible. Here's the old SoV nomination post. This is my updated design:

The miniature used is the Mandalorian Scout figure from Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

Spoiler Alert!

NAME = SOONTIR VAN
GENERAL = AQUILLA
PLANET = ALPHA PRIME
SPECIES = MARIEDIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = LEADER
PERSONALITY = DETERMINED
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 65

MARIEDIAN MOVE ENHANCEMENT
All friendly Mariedians who start their turn adjacent to Soontir Van may move 2 additional spaces when moving normally.

DOUBLE SHOT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 6. Attack 2.
When Soontir Van attacks with his Double Shot Special Attack, he may attack one additional time.

I'm curious what everyone thinks! He's purely a Mariedian-booster this time around. Moving Soontir and other Mariedians with the M-43's Guerrilla Tactics power requires some thought to get the most use out of Soontir's move enhancement.

[Leaf_It]

I don't know how I feel about leader as a class. It feels almost too generic. I like the custom otherwise. Feels like a more expensive, higher life, McCreech, with synergy.



With Rendar Fy in the SoV pipeline now, and this fellow looking like he'll soon follow, the Mariedian army is looking very nice.

[Son of Arathorn]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I don't know how I feel about leader as a class. It feels almost too generic. I like the custom otherwise. Feels like a more expensive, higher life, McCreech, with synergy.



With Rendar Fy in the SoV pipeline now, and this fellow looking like he'll soon follow, the Mariedian army is looking very nice.

FWIW, Leader is a canon class (Migol Ironwill), and it looks good to me here- don't know what else you'd pick for a resistance commander.

Arch-vile, I like that you kept Soontir Van low-cost- how much has Double Shot SA come up in-game? I assume he gets at least one order marker at the start of the game, and maybe a couple more later in the game when your M-43s are thinned out.

[flameslayer93]

As cool as the movement boost is here, I think Double Attack is the better option here. Double shot is basically two normal attacks here.

[Arch-vile]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I don't know how I feel about leader as a class. It feels almost too generic. I like the custom otherwise. Feels like a more expensive, higher life, McCreech, with synergy.

Thanks Leaf_It. He is awfully similar to McCreech, but I've noticed Soontir's movement boost is his main draw. Like Son of Arathorn said, I took Leader from one of the official dwarves. He needed something to convey that he's a Mariedian leader/sergeant/commander/etc.

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

Arch-vile, I like that you kept Soontir Van low-cost- how much has Double Shot SA come up in-game? I assume he gets at least one order marker at the start of the game, and maybe a couple more later in the game when your M-43s are thinned out.

He's more of a engame fighter in my experience. You want to set up your start zone so you can use the movement aura right away with the M-43s, and then keep moving Soontir up so he stays adjacent to some M-43s. (Guerrilla Tactics means Soontir doesn't need Order Markers to keep up.) Double Shot Special Attack is used when you want a consistent two attacks in the endgame or just want a special attack to avoid defensive powers.

Originally Posted by flameslayer93

As cool as the movement boost is here, I think Double Attack is the better option here. Double shot is basically two normal attacks here.

You know what, I completely agree. Kira Jax & Jarek Guy already provide ways to get around defensive powers anyway. It makes Soontir Van even more like Guilty McCreech, but they play so differently in their best armies I don't think it's a huge issue. Here's an updated card:

[Son of Arathorn]

I don’t really expect Special Attack vs. Double Attack to tip the scales in the SoV one way or the other; my question was more about curiosity than pushing for any specific change, just so you don’t take it as such. But he looks good to me either way.

Kinda wish the shrug smiley didn’t frown so much- not always what I’m going for.
Another random note- I really dig this thread. Kudos to everyone who chimes in.

[caps]

I'm not sure I see it. There's something missing for me with this design. I'm not sure what it is. For one, I'm not sure why I would pick Soontir Van over three more M-43. I want to have at least two squads of them and I'm going to be putting a bunch of the rest of my points to the B-11, Jarek Guy, and maybe Kira Jax. If I have a multiple of 65 points available I'm going to want to bump up the number of M-43s, rather than pick up a hero that will give me fewer attacks and less mobility for the same price.

So that's the practical aspect; on the non-practical side, and I recognize this is much more subjective, the design just doesn't excite me. I'm not sure if I can elaborate anymore than that.

[Astroking112]

I was just about to comment that I didn't see why the Double Attack was a Special Attack and saw that it's already been said. I completely agree with that change.

I'd like to see his points drop ever so slightly, though, even if it's only to 60. Having more options for building Mariedian armies at different point totals would be a nice touch, and I don't think that he'll do enough damage with 2 attacks of 2 that 5 points will be a big problem.

Mariedian Move Enhancement feels like a very interesting addition to the faction to me, albeit one that might be overpowered in practice. It has fantastic synergy with the M-43's Guerilla Tactics, but if playtesting shows it to be too strong, I'd suggest possibly toning it down to just +1 move within 2 spaces or something. How powerful has it been in practice?

[Arch-vile]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

I don’t really expect Special Attack vs. Double Attack to tip the scales in the SoV one way or the other; my question was more about curiosity than pushing for any specific change, just so you don’t take it as such. But he looks good to me either way.

I didn't take it that way, and I wouldn't expect that small change to make a difference in the SoV. It just made more sense as a normal double attack with the other changes I've made to the design.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I'm not sure I see it. There's something missing for me with this design. I'm not sure what it is. For one, I'm not sure why I would pick Soontir Van over three more M-43. I want to have at least two squads of them and I'm going to be putting a bunch of the rest of my points to the B-11, Jarek Guy, and maybe Kira Jax. If I have a multiple of 65 points available I'm going to want to bump up the number of M-43s, rather than pick up a hero that will give me fewer attacks and less mobility for the same price.

Yeah, I've been considering lowering to 60 points. I worry that the movement boost could restrict future design space if his points are too low. I want to do a few more tests with the B-11 to see how valuable the movement boost is on its own.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

So that's the practical aspect; on the non-practical side, and I recognize this is much more subjective, the design just doesn't excite me. I'm not sure if I can elaborate anymore than that.

I understand that completely. He's not a super flashy design. This kind of redesigns the unit, but I wonder if a defense adjacent boosting aura would make him more interesting. Maybe +1 move and +1 defense for all adjacent Mariedians?

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I'd like to see his points drop ever so slightly, though, even if it's only to 60. Having more options for building Mariedian armies at different point totals would be a nice touch, and I don't think that he'll do enough damage with 2 attacks of 2 that 5 points will be a big problem.

Mariedian Move Enhancement feels like a very interesting addition to the faction to me, albeit one that might be overpowered in practice. It has fantastic synergy with the M-43's Guerilla Tactics, but if playtesting shows it to be too strong, I'd suggest possibly toning it down to just +1 move within 2 spaces or something. How powerful has it been in practice?

I'm leaning towards 60 points now, I just need a few more games with the B-11. The move bonus is rather map dependent and/or matchup dependent. Jarek Guy loves the extra movement since he can throw grenades at multiple enemy figures, and he has a low threat range normally. Some maps really love the +2 move, while others could take it or leave it. 7 move isn't normally enough to glyph-grab on turn 1 on the maps I've played.

[Scytale]

On its face it looks like Soontir Van could use more bells and whistles, but Guerilla Tactics is essentially an additional power, one that works really well with Mariedian Move Enhancement. I can imagine some fairly complex uses of the two powers, which plays off of the general movement ability of the Mariedians.


Leader is good as the class, imo.