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#1
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Remixed Master Sets
This thread was inspired by @GameBear 's excellent thread on Expanding the design space for competitive maps.
I'll repost the main point here: Quote:
Spoiler Alert!
The TL;DR was that if one map-maker is making all the maps in a set and all three of them have to go together then
For example, one family might be Durgeth Fortress and Crumland Outpost, two remixed master sets that use (divided between them) 1xRotV, 1xSotM, and 1xFotA. Durgeth Fortress would have these tiles Code:
1 hive 1 gate 4 wall corner 2 wall end 3 wall straight 25 battlement 11 ladder 10 grass 1-hex 3 grass 2-hex 3 grass 24-hex 3 grass 3-hex 3 grass 7-hex 1 rock 2hex 1 rock 3-hex 1 sand 2-hex 1 sand 3-hex 2 swamp 1-hex 2 swamp 2-hex 2 swamp 24-hex 2 swamp 3-hex 10 swamp 7-hex 22 swamp water 10 wall-walk 1-hex 1 wall-walk 9-hex 15 water tiles Code:
1 ruin 3-hex 1 ruin 2-hex 6 wall corner 2 wall end 4 wall straight 25 battlement 11 ladder 7 grass 1-hex 3 grass 2-hex 3 grass 24-hex 2 grass 3-hex 2 grass 7-hex 7 rock 1-hex 2 rock 24-hex 3 rock 2hex 3 rock 3-hex 4 rock 7-hex 5 sand 1-hex 2 sand 2-hex 3 sand 3-hex 7 sand 7-hex 12 swamp water 11 wall-walk 1-hex 1 wall-walk 7-hex 14 water tiles I will collect an index of such sets in the second post of this thread. I invite commentary, discussion, critique of the sets designed so far, and for people to come up with their own sets and submit them. Of course, for these sets to have real value there will need to be a broad range of maps available (or at least several choices) for each Remixed Master Set. It is my hope and intention that myself (and others) will run map contests over the next few years to generate such a pool of maps (along with whatever maps that people choose to create purely from inspiration by this thread). And for this to be easy to do, there should be custom VirtualScape "collection" files for each remixed master set, so that a map author can just load in the collection file and easily see what is available in the app. I plan to provide those files for each of the families that I create. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#2
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Index of Remixed Master Set Families
Durgeth Fortress and Crumland Outpost - 1xRotV + 1xSotM + 1xFotA Feldspar Dungeon and Ruins of Ghostlight Fen - 1xBftU + 1xSotM + 1xFotA + 1xTT Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#3
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Durgeth Fortress and Crumland Outpost
1xRotV 1xSotM 1xFotA Durgeth Fortress - download the .vsc (VirtualScape collection file) here Code:
1 hive 1 gate 4 wall corner 2 wall end 3 wall straight 25 battlement 11 ladder 8 grass 1-hex 2 grass 2-hex 4 grass 24-hex 2 grass 3-hex 1 grass 7-hex 1 rock 2hex 1 rock 3-hex 1 sand 2-hex 1 sand 3-hex 2 swamp 1-hex 2 swamp 2-hex 2 swamp 24-hex 2 swamp 3-hex 10 swamp 7-hex 22 swamp water 10 wall-walk 1-hex 1 wall-walk 9-hex 15 water tiles Code:
1 ruin 3-hex 1 ruin 2-hex 6 wall corner 2 wall end 4 wall straight 25 battlement 11 ladder 9 grass 1-hex 4 grass 2-hex 2 grass 24-hex 3 grass 3-hex 4 grass 7-hex 7 rock 1-hex 2 rock 24-hex 3 rock 2hex 3 rock 3-hex 4 rock 7-hex 5 sand 1-hex 2 sand 2-hex 3 sand 3-hex 7 sand 7-hex 12 swamp water 11 wall-walk 1-hex 1 wall-walk 7-hex 14 water tiles Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV Last edited by caps; December 9th, 2022 at 09:28 PM. Reason: updating to v2 |
#4
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Feldspar Dungeon and Ruins of Ghostlight Fen
1xBftU 1xSotM 1xFotA 1xTT Feldspar Dungeon - download the .vsc (VirtualScape collection file) here Code:
2 dungeon 1-hex 2 dungeon 2-hex 2 dungeon 24-hex 2 dungeon 3-hex 3 dungeon 7-hex 2 grass 1-hex 2 grass 2-hex 1 grass 3-hex 2 rock 1-hex 2 rock 2-hex 2 rock 3-hex 3 rock 7-hex 2 sand 1-hex 2 sand 2-hex 2 sand 3-hex 8 sand 7-hex 12 swamp water 9 wall-walk 1-hex 1 wall-walk 7-hex 1 wall-walk 9-hex 10 water tiles 30 battlement 14 ladder 10 wall corner 4 wall end 7 wall straight 1 gate Code:
21 ice 1 rock 3-hex 1 rock 7-hex 8 shadow tiles 12 snow 1-hex 12 snow 2-hex 2 swamp 1-hex 2 swamp 2-hex 2 swamp 24-hex 2 swamp 3-hex 10 swamp 7-hex 22 swamp water 12 wall-walk 1-hex 10 water tiles 20 battlement 8 ladder 3 glacier 1-hex 3 outcrop 1-hex 1 glacier 3-hex 1 outcrop 3-hex 1 glacier 4-hex 1 glacier 6-hex 1 hive Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV Last edited by caps; December 9th, 2022 at 09:30 PM. Reason: updated to v2 |
#5
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Quote:
Quote:
For instance, Ruins of Ghostlight Fen only has 8 wall-walk tiles, is that enough to do something interesting with or do we need to move more over from Feldspar Dungeon? Durgeth Fortress and Crumland Outpost both have 5 24-hexers. Is that a good map-making challenge that will bring us some new and interesting map outlines? Or is it just obnoxious and one of them should swap a few 7 hexers over in order to get a 6th 24-hexer? Ruins of Ghostlight Fen has dramatically more level 0 tiles (shadow, ice, swamp water, water) than Feldspar Dungeon, but I counted those hexes when balancing out the hex count. Does that make RoGF maps too small? Or does it just encourage flatter maps (that are hopefully still interesting!) in the style of Embattled Fen, Kermode Swamp, etc.? These are examples of a few of the questions to answer before locking in these sets. This is also why I am starting small with the first sets. I have ambitious goals for much larger families that use 6-9 master sets and terrain expansions, but I want to have a better idea of good ways to break up the terrain before launching into those. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#6
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
After thinking about it more my instinct is that 4 24-hexers and 6 24-hexers is probably a better allocation than 5 and 5, for a variety of reasons, one of which would be better differentiation in possible footprints between the two remixed master sets
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#7
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I'm intrigued by this overall idea and project!
While I've historically been more of a map consumer than a creator, one thought did jump out at me when you mentioned "goals for much larger families that use 6-9 master sets and terrain expansions." I can imagine how this approach would allow for more interesting and varied "remix sets", but I wonder whether having a large number of these new sets would dilute their overall utility. As you indicate in your explanation of the concept, one key to success will be gaining sufficient adoption such that each of the new remix sets actually gets used by multiple designers. If there are a dozen new sets across several new families, will all of the sets see sufficient use to create a viable map pool for their respective families? A related consideration -- which I'm sure you are already pondering -- is that each remixed set of terrain needs to not only be useful (containing a sufficient quantity and variety of terrain to make viable and interesting maps), but also distinct - having a sufficiently unique mix of elements (as compared to the other remix sets) that map designers will be inspired to use it. The more remix sets that exist, the more difficult it might be for each of them to have a distinct identity. It's definitely an interesting challenge! All that being said, I'm not trying to discourage any particular approach, and you clearly have a lot more knowledge in this area than I do. I trust your instincts, but I figured it also couldn't hurt to share my thoughts in case they are helpful. ~ Grison * Available: Confrontation & other minis for C3V units (various Varks, Cultists, Gnids, etc.) * My Sale/Trade List The Orphanage - HS Figure Exchange (My available/wanted orphans) |
#8
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
And as a Princess Bride fan, there definitely needs to be a fire swamp set in the mix somewhere.
![]() * Available: Confrontation & other minis for C3V units (various Varks, Cultists, Gnids, etc.) * My Sale/Trade List The Orphanage - HS Figure Exchange (My available/wanted orphans) |
#9
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Quote:
I think the community can probably afford to have new "families" introduced every year or two after the initial batch, but I think the initial batch can be as big as 3-5 families. It will depend on how many new maps are made for each family, and how quickly. If these sets are widely adopted then it should be easy to introduce new families more quickly, but if only a few map-makers buy in then it will take more time to build a large enough catalog of maps in a family to justify introducing a new family. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#10
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Quote:
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#11
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Here's an example of my first shot at this! I'd say it turned out pretty well. I like the way it challenged my mapmaking skills and produced a fun and unique aesthetic I normally wouldn't get otherwise.
The First Age Sets: Feldspar Dungeon X1 ![]() Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 268 - 116 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#12
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Re: Remixed Master Sets
Quote:
Quote:
I'm looking forward to having a chance to play around with these myself this weekend. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate ![]() -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
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