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C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs |
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#7837
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
I don't see the benefit to Law of the Land triggering with outlaws around. It's purely flavor at that point with very little mechanical benefit (and it makes things more complex). If anything; I could see Jim as a flexible unit who could become either an outlaw or a lawman given the army composition. Otherwise I think he should just be a lawman when lawmen are in his army and a tribesman otherwise
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#7838
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
One thing that it does do is gives Garrett Burns a bonus against him. That's thematic, imo.
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#7839
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
The High Dune Scorpions have received 5 Yea votes to review (wriggz, Scytale, superfrog, Dysole, and Vydar_XLIII) and move further in the process.
Jim Whitecloud has received 5 Yea votes to review (Scytale, superfrog, Dysole, wriggz, and Vydar_XLIII) and moves forward in the process. |
#7840
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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This is a fun interaction. |
#7841
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
Nordlung by
@Sherman Davies
Creativity One of HeroScape’s defining characteristics is how it mixes genres. WWII soldiers mixed with samurai mixed with fantasy creatures mixed with futuristic agents mixed with otherworldly robots. Like many of the iconic classic units, Nordlung captures HeroScape’s genre mixing motif in one card. And it does it well. An Icarian dragon supplementing his already formidable power using Alpha Prime technology and a really big axe. This miniature is just awesome – conceptually fitting seamlessly into Jandar’s ranks, right between Nilfheim and Omegacron. Theme It’s a big white Dragon with a big gun. (A DraGun, if you will.) When I look at the theme of a unit, my typical process is to isolate the card from the mini and ask: “Do they match?” The stats and text on the Army Card depicts a young white dragon with a gun. The miniature depicts a white dragon with a big gun and a big axe. These are subtly different. The axe gets lost when you look at the Army Card in isolation and the youth isn’t obviously apparent on the miniature without directly comparing to Nilfheim. Looking back at the whole design package, I buy his youth and princely status due to Nilfheim as a precedent, and the 5 attack can easily be the Dragon’s natural melee attack or it could be the axe. It isn’t a huge problem that the axe gets a bit lost in this design as its easily the least interesting part of the miniature. It can be a cool little bit of detail like Mogrimm’s crossbow. Let me touch on power names for a moment. A lot of the judges, myself included, have given a “meh” reaction to the names of Nordlung’s Special Attacks, without really articulating why we don’t love the names. This isn’t incredibly pertinent to the review and is subjective, so I’ll put my thoughts on why I don’t particularly like them in spoiler tags and you can take it or leave it.
Spoiler Alert!
Again, the power names as written are “fine”. But I think they could be better. One final thing to mention is the Range on Omnicron Pulse Rifle. Why 8? My guess is to match the Major’s Range for mechanical reasons. I really want it to match the Cron’s range at 7. I can see the argument for more since the gun is so big, but since the Omnicron link is so prevalent in the design already, I think it ought to be carried through fully. Balance Two pretty good comparisons to existing figures have been made, the first compares Nordlung to a Mimring/Nilfheim hybrid, and the second compared him to a Major Q10 with Flying. Defensive comparisons are straightforward, where Nordlung measures up pretty poorly. He is much closer to Mimring levels of survivability than to that of Q10 or Nilfheim. Offensively is much less straightforward. Fire Line and Omnicron Pulse Rifle can’t be compared 1-to-1. Fire Line multi-targets, Omnicron Pulse Rifle is single target but isn’t constrained to a line; but the main idea is that of a 4 dice attack at 8 range. Fire Line has more power early-mid game when there are more targets. Omnicron Pulse Rifle is much more versatile. The lack of multi-targeting at 8 range is made up for with Princeling Ice Shards. A straight-up nerf to Ice Shard Breath, having 1 fewer attack and 1 fewer attack dice. Even though I initially made the Q10 with flying comparison, as I dug into the numbers it really doesn’t hold up past the obvious “2 special attacks on one card” relationship. Turns out the best assessment is that Nordlung is statistically close to 2/3 of Nilfheim, with the addition of Omnicron Pulse Rifle. 2/3 the survivability (“Lifense”), 1/2 the dice on Ice Shard attacks (2x3 v 3x4), and 5/6 the normal attack. 185 x 2/3 = 123.3, roughly. Is Omnicron Pulse Rifle worth ~42 points? Honestly, I think its worth more. The 8 range attack itself is probably worth the 40 points. And then we have the anti-Soulborg OM portion of the power. To automatically remove one OM per round off of a Soulborg Army Card skews any Soulborg matchup heavily in Nordlung’s favor. To me, Nordlung seems priced for his non-Soulborg matchup. Not for the Majors, Tron, Cron, or Borg matchups where he excels. Playability As stated already, Nordlung is really easy to compare to other existing dragons. Specifically and unsurprisingly, Nilfheim is the prime comparison in this category too. Both function really well in conjunction with Greenscales and Raelin. Nordlung allows Greenies to be played at lower point totals than Nilfheim. So at 425 points Greenscales now have a viable option. The Nordlung build trades general power and consistency for versatility and dominance in the Soulborg matchups compared to the traditional Nilfhiem army. There is definitely room in the game for both white dragons without them stepping on each other’s claws. As I’ve mentioned already, Nordlung excels in games against Soulborgs. While there are a lot of Soulborgs at the top of the Power Rankings and the game could always use another check against Major Q9, Nordlung’s Omnicron Pulse Rifle just dominates these matchups. Since OPR’s OM removing effect automatically happens after an attack, the Nordlung player has a 75% chance with initiative and a 66% chance without to knock an Order Marker off of their opponent’s primary offensive piece or Order Marker hub. There are a few ways I’ve thought up that could make this power less oppressive. First, the OM removal effect of the Pulse Rifle could be behind a D20 roll. If it happens 50% of the time, that seems much less oppressive. Perhaps you have to spend your OMX just to roll, so you don’t get a try every turn. Second, Nordlung would have to reveal the OMX to use that attack. Being only able to hit from 8 range once a round could even alleviate some endgame concerns. And third, Nordlung could actually have to do damage for the OM to be removed. There are plenty of dials to combine and tune as necessary to make a balanced power that checks but doesn’t dominate Soulborgs. Outside of Greenscales, I played one game with Nordlung alongside Cyprien (a figure whom I typically do not enjoy playing with). Their interactions with Soulborgs kinda cancelled each other out. Each round Nordlung pulsed away an Order Marker and gave Cyprien a bit more breathing room. Shielding Cyp from one OM worth of attacks was enough for him to finish off Raelin leaving those in her care exposed for the rest of the game. That was a fun interaction. Summary To conclude; I love the miniature. I love the big idea. I think some of the thematic elements could be a little more polished and cohesive. One small thematic issue could be justified in deference to mechanics or clarity. But Nordlung has more than one “I think that could be better” moments. If you’re thinking that I’m being way too over-critical over a few tiny theme issues, you’d be right. These issues are small and subjective. If those were all that I took issue with, I would probably chock them up to creative differences and Nordlung would be good to go from me. (For clarity, I’m referring to the overshadowed axe, power names, and range 8 on the rifle.) But since there is another larger issue in play, I want to shine a spotlight at the small things. Hopefully to make us all better designers. That larger issue, is that the Soulborg matchup is just unfun. The Soulborg player just doesn’t get to play HeroScape for up to a third of the game. Omnicron Pulse Rifle is massively overpowered in these matchups and Nordlung is not priced appropriately for it. I vote NAY to induct Nordlung into the SoV. |
#7842
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
I figured I'd go ahead and ask these questions, with the AoA campaign wrapping up:
1. Can we submit unique squads with multiple life? 2. Can we submit figures that are unpainted, if they have a painted version as part of the submission? 3. Flying and Stealth Flying, can we submit cards that just have the bold text? 4. Can we submit units with the newly revealed generals? |
#7843
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
I imagine VC will have internal discussions about those topics in the coming weeks. We haven't yet.
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#7844
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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I imagine that was just a side effect of them posting unfinished cards, much like how the hit zone image showed "Silos goes here". |
#7845
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
No, they put the text in the beta rulebook with a note that the text won't be on the cards.
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#7846
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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#7847
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
I stand corrected. I missed that.
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#7848
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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