The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Scytale

That's problematic. Memory mechanics are generally not good unless they have some means of tracking them, such as a marker. And powers that add new markers are not well-liked unless there's a really good reason for the marker.

A prior iteration of that particular idea required there to be at least 1 revealed Order Marker on Masha Shingai, but I'm not a big fan of how that still technically allows him to try and turtle.

Would there be pushback against a marker if I did decide to pursue this route? We've seen with the Airborne Elite that some markers can be really simple in their use as a memory tool, and I agree that it would help players remember whether the aura is active or not.

Originally Posted by MrNobody

What if you place the figures on his card when they’re destroyed?

That could get confusing when paired with Marro Gnids or Viking Spirits in the same game, I think.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

A prior iteration of that particular idea required there to be at least 1 revealed Order Marker on Masha Shingai, but I'm not a big fan of how that still technically allows him to try and turtle.


Would there be pushback against a marker if I did decide to pursue this route? We've seen with the Airborne Elite that some markers can be really simple in their use as a memory tool, and I agree that it would help players remember whether the aura is active or not.

I think there would be some. Some of us don't mind markers at all, others oppose them in general. I personally think a mechanic where he gets a marker if he kills a figure and has an effect until the end of round is reasonable.

I'm surprised you think that a revealed Order Marker would still let him turtle. While yes, that's technically true, giving up 1/3rd of a round to better turtle is a waste. No one would give up their '1' just to sit there. Especially on a 5 Attack figure.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I think there would be some. Some of us don't mind markers at all, others oppose them in general. I personally think a mechanic where he gets a marker if he kills a figure and has an effect until the end of round is reasonable.

I'm surprised you think that a revealed Order Marker would still let him turtle. While yes, that's technically true, giving up 1/3rd of a round to better turtle is a waste. No one would give up their '1' just to sit there. Especially on a 5 Attack figure.

Perhaps I misspoke a bit. My original intent with that idea was to force him to be used much more aggressively, so I liked the simplicity of forcing the player to consistently take turns with him to activate the aura. However, I wasn't sure if the theme came across as clearly as making the requirement to kill something, especially since it theoretically does allow him to sit in place, even if it is inefficient. The two are closely linked because of his stats, but players could still just reposition him at the beginning of each round to activate the aura, which I'm not as big of a fan of.

Using a killed figure as the trigger instead of a revealed Order Marker is also a little bit weaker, leaving slightly more uncertainty as to whether he will be able to activate the aura (and forcing the player to consider putting more Order Markers on him to ensure that it triggers) along with giving the lower-attack armies more ways to play around him. I'm still mulling over which option would be the best route to take, since both do have notable advantages and drawbacks.

[Sir Heroscape]

Looking for some feedback on the Shadow Demon below...SPECIFICALLY the change to the special ability. I had already been toying with the idea of a small range attack for their special, but wanted to see how they played without it first. I think it make sense that they're swooping in from a few spaces a way to deal damage on a confused and otherwise distracted opponent. It also forces the player to decide if they want to stay from range and attack or still go adjacent to increase the buffs of the other shadows. I like it, but was curious what others might think.

[Astroking112]

I don't particularly mind it, but it doesn't really excite me, either. I feel like the design is interesting enough without the added little bit of range (and it does feel a little weird to encourage the demon to sit back while you surround targets with other shadows), but I know that the faction as a whole has generally underperformed in your playtests.

I do think that the Special Attack currently evokes some kind of ranged shadow orb spell rather than the demon swooping in, though. If you want to keep this theme, then perhaps you could solve this (and prevent the demon from just continuously safely attacking a swarmed figure from range) by forcing the player to place the Shadow Demon adjacent to the defending figure after the attack?

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Looking for some feedback on the Shadow Demon below...SPECIFICALLY the change to the special ability. I had already been toying with the idea of a small range attack for their special, but wanted to see how they played without it first. I think it make sense that they're swooping in from a few spaces a way to deal damage on a confused and otherwise distracted opponent. It also forces the player to decide if they want to stay from range and attack or still go adjacent to increase the buffs of the other shadows. I like it, but was curious what others might think.

The swooping thematically feels like part of this guys movement. Sonlens dragon swoop works because his pet dragon is swooping and coming back to him. This swoop feels a little different. Ultimately it feels like he is getting an extra 4 move to attack and retreat to the place he ended movement. Since hes not actually moving to those spaces it has a weird feel to it. If he swooped a gladiatron it would really stand out as weird. It feels like more of a ranged attack not a swoop.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

If you want to keep this theme, then perhaps you could solve this (and prevent the demon from just continuously safely attacking a swarmed figure from range) by forcing the player to place the Shadow Demon adjacent to the defending figure after the attack?

I actually really like this idea. Kinda makes more sense than what TREX was saying and still can give adjacency bonus if it doesn’t kill the figure. Though, than it gets a little tricky if it kills the figure. Maybe it would take the place of the destroyed figure?

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I actually really like this idea. Kinda makes more sense than what TREX was saying and still can give adjacency bonus if it doesn’t kill the figure. Though, than it gets a little tricky if it kills the figure. Maybe it would take the place of the destroyed figure?

What astro is saying makes sense for a swoop because the demon has essentially moved in as part of the attack and is staying there. I was saying that how it is on the card currently it seems wierd because it has the feel of a ranged shooting attack of sorts.

[Sir Heroscape]

Here's an idea?

SHADOW SWOOP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3. Attack 3.
When attacking with a Shadow Demon using Shadow Swoop Special Attack, subtract 1 from the defending figures defense for every other Shadow figure it is engaged with, up to minus 2 defense. If the figure is destroyed, immediately place the attacking Demon on the space the figure occupied. If the figure is not destroyed, immediately place the attacking Demon adjacent to the defending figure.

Thoughts?

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Here's an idea?

Thoughts?

I think that does it. The only thing it doesn't cover is if the defending figure is not destroyed, and there isn't an empty adjacent space for the demon to go to.

[caps]

Now you have essentially a pounce SA without the same penalty that has applied to other pounce SAs in the past.

I'm smelling a lack of restraint in many areas of this faction.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

Now you have essentially a pounce SA without the same penalty that has applied to other pounce SAs in the past.

I'm smelling a lack of restraint in many areas of this faction.

I was going to say something like this. What happens if the figure is entirely surrounded? Personally, I don't like the aspect of pounce that kills the hound/thrall if they fail to kill, and would have preferred placing next the figure it was used on. But it handled all the side cases in a simple way, and didn't need to have multiple possible placement methods based on what happened.

Thematically I like the idea of moving the shadow as part of the attack, because it makes sense with a swoop, but I would do it like this:

SHADOW SWOOP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3. Attack 3.
To Shadow Swoop, choose an opponent's figure within 3 sight spaces of the attacking Shadow Demon. Place the Shadow Demon adjacent to the chosen figure if possible. You must be able to place the Shadow Demon adjacent to the chosen figure to attack them with Shadow Swoop Special Attack. When using Shadow Swoop Special Attack, subtract 1 from the defending figure's defense for every other Shadow figure it is engaged with, up to minus 2 defense.