The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Tornado

I imagine most of the judges here solo playtest a lot.

Yup. Over and over and over and over and over ....

[Tornado]

Do you have any tips for testing?
You must have a system for taking notes.
Do you have your figures and cards arranged in any particular way?
Do you have multiple maps set up?

[Shiftrex]

I try to have 3 maps set up when I do solo playtesting and I find it helpful to just proxy the figures you are playtesting so you can even have multiple games set up. It helps a lot to move from one game to another game on a different day, different point totals.

I find it helpful to make notes rather general because... most people never ask to see your playtesting data and the one time I did try to make mine very visible it wasn't ever factored in xD

Best thing to do is write before and after impressions and then quantify how many times a given ability mattered or was activated on your turn.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Do you have any tips for testing?
You must have a system for taking notes.
Do you have your figures and cards arranged in any particular way?
Do you have multiple maps set up?

I wrote a Codex article on that a while back. But you know that because you commented on it.

For SoV I run at least a dozen tests across at least 4 formats. Different units get different focuses, though. Yes, I have multiple maps set up at any one time.

I never take notes or write up playtests. I don't find that helpful. When I playtest I try different strategies to see what works and what doesn't and different builds if synergies apply. Most importantly I stress points that I find weak to see how well they hold up after numerous games, and I compare how the design appears to be focused against how it is best played. Additionally, after numerous games, I ask myself how many points I would be willing to spend drafting the unit.

[Tornado]

Thanks. A little surprised you do not take notes. I am really impressed you can write those awesome reviews on memory but I take it that the review may be forming in your mind as you test?

What are your favorite maps to playtest on?
Do you have go to armies you like to run against the design you are testing?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Thanks. A little surprised you do not take notes. I am really impressed you can write those awesome reviews on memory but I take it that the review may be forming in your mind as you test?

When I'm testing a unit for review, I get to know that unit inside and out. I have to; that's the job. Probably better than the creator. I don't need notes to make a write-up. As I'm testing I'm forming the key points of my review in my mind.

Originally Posted by Tornado

What are your favorite maps to playtest on?

I don't really have any favorites. Often times they're my own thrown-together maps, so they don't have names anyway.

Originally Posted by Tornado

Do you have go to armies you like to run against the design you are testing?

I definitely have go-to armies. While it's important to get a feel for opponents that a unit is specifically good or bad against, the most valuable playtesting comes from a more neutral format. Sacred Band are a favorite, as they are a squad of decent strength without any specific weaknesses or playstyle.

[wriggz]

This is a fun exercise.

Notes - I make a few on my review document for examples of game events that add color to the write up. I will also write down important synergy and the kind of unit (shark, cleanup, etc) and game phase (opening middle endgame) I hink suits the unit.

Maps - I'm not regimented here. Often I use the AotP base plates and throw various terrain on it for a quick game. I don't look at SoV testing specifically for tournament play any more than the original designs were. I'll try a few heat of the battle set ups and even a dungeon crawl if the unit seems well suited for it.

Armies - I love using the 10th and dreadguls so they see play. I bust out green scales and dragons. But it is also unit dependant. For example if a unit is likely to see activations in the endgame running it against a krav or two or a couple of marro warriors is a good idea.

I also like testing against architype armies. It's good to see how heroes deal with swarms, hero killers and turtles.

[AndreThaGiant]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

How much have these customs been tested? Keep in mind (to all designers) that this thread is for customs that have been tested to the point that you are almost ready to submit to SoV, not for customs you’re at the early stages of designing.

I have to ask, and this is an honest question, is there a place where newbie designers like myself can ask preliminary design questions? a Pre-Pre-SoV thread? I usually get some decent feedback from the Discord #customs, but some input can only be received from the active members on the site here.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant

I have to ask, and this is an honest question, is there a place where newbie designers like myself can ask preliminary design questions? a Pre-Pre-SoV thread? I usually get some decent feedback from the Discord #customs, but some input can only be received from the active members on the site here.

Honestly, sometimes I'll just tag individuals in my own customs thread and/or just send them a PM personally.

[wriggz]

This thread gets lots of traffic from a few custom giants. Design questions are always welcome, and better here than starting a dozen snub threads.

I'm not sure if @Dad_Scaper would mind but help with workz thread might be good too.

[kevindola]

Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant

I have to ask, and this is an honest question, is there a place where newbie designers like myself can ask preliminary design questions? a Pre-Pre-SoV thread? I usually get some decent feedback from the Discord #customs, but some input can only be received from the active members on the site here.

I'll plug the Custom Unit Playtesting Exchange. This isn't quite an answer to your question, but it is a definitive way to get feedback on specific designs from other people. Not just theoreyscaping, but actual games played with your custom by other scapers.

@Shiftrex , @All Your Pie , and @Flash_19 (and myself) used to be pretty active utilizing that thread to get detailed feedback on a designs in exchange for doing the same for one of their designs. This may be an avenue for @SchismaticSounds as well as I've seen multiple new customs from him pop up desiring feedback.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant

I have to ask, and this is an honest question, is there a place where newbie designers like myself can ask preliminary design questions? a Pre-Pre-SoV thread? I usually get some decent feedback from the Discord #customs, but some input can only be received from the active members on the site here.

Designers should *absolutely* have their own threads, for their own stuff. The SoV is not a place to bring your "best" designs. It's just a place to bring the ones that you intend to nominate for the SoV, and even then, this thread is purely optional. Some designers work well in this sort of collaborative environment; others - excellent designers, such as Scytale himself, among others - do their work completely independently. In their own threads.

It's very important that designers understand that this thread is not for general discussion of your customs. If what you want is constructive criticism for your work, or if you want a place to showcase what you've done, use your own thread! If it's here, that means that it's getting tuned up for the SoV. Which will mean it will be challenged in ways that just don't matter for a general review of the quality of a custom. In my opinion.

If it's in the SoV, it's an excellent custom. But if it's not in the SoV, it may be just as excellent, or even moreso.

So, go ahead and put your designs on display. It's hard to get eyes on your own designs in your own threads, but there are things you can do. First, be active on other people's customs threads. And here, and in other community threads. That should draw traffic to you. Second, take people up on their offers! Tag them, PM them, whatever. If you have something you want me to look at, just tag me. People take me up on that offer incredibly rarely, for some reason. They may think I'm not serious.

It looks like you're getting good suggestions here. Try mine out, and try theirs out, too. Good luck!