The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I really don't like the "if it's in the lore, we must make a custom for it" mindset. That detracts from the lore by ripping it from out imaginations and making it into a mechanic.

Interesting. I guess I can see that a bit, though I think the lore helps make a design more enriching and exciting when it ties back to the lore. I mean, I agree we don't need a custom for everything in lore...but it does seem a bit odd (in this instance) that 1 of the 2 main things we know about Durgeth aren't included in a design. That said, I think the counter to that is that THIS design in particular might not be suited for that part of the lore to be represented in...so I'm partial to that opinion. I'll see how the design holds up without Comfreys....but I definitely think at some point the Durgeth should have a Comfrey using unit designed. We know very little about them other than they are strong in swamp and they use Comfrey's for long life...so it just makes sense to me that a design should capture those things about them. Again, I agree this design might not be the one to do that though.

[Astroking112]

The Comfrey Plants extending Durgeth lives can just be represented by heroes such as Vegüzza having a higher Life. Valguard's alien lizard arm doesn't play directly into his design (it's only said to give him "superhuman stamina and a lust for blood," which can be represented by his 7 life). While Comfrey Plants are one of the few things that we know about them from the lore, a healing hero feels diametrically opposed to Valkrill and the Durgeth playstyle, and I'd be perfectly content with either leaving this aspect to the lore or representing it in a less direct fashion.

Other than that, I think that Durgeth Supremacy should only give a +1 bonus to the D20 (or if it doesn't, it should be renamed). I'd like to maintain the "_____ Supremacy" = "+1 to D20 for _____" that we have so far.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

The Comfrey Plants extending Durgeth lives can just be represented by heroes such as Vegüzza having a higher Life. Valguard's alien lizard arm doesn't play directly into his design (it's only said to give him "superhuman stamina and a lust for blood," which can be represented by his 7 life). While Comfrey Plants are one of the few things that we know about them from the lore, a healing hero feels diametrically opposed to Valkrill and the Durgeth playstyle, and I'd be perfectly content with either leaving this aspect to the lore or representing it in a less direct fashion.

Other than that, I think that Durgeth Supremacy should only give a +1 bonus to the D20 (or if it doesn't, it should be renamed). I'd like to maintain the "_____ Supremacy" = "+1 to D20 for _____" that we have so far.

Mmm you have a point on the Valguard piece. I actually kind of like that. A design with 8 life would definitely capture that. And, people would be like .."why's this dude have 8 life?" and then someone would be like "well let me tell you..." and then they can tell the story of the lore.

How about Durgeth Ascendancy for the name change? The dictionary definition states "occupation of a position of dominant power or influence." I think that captures his position as an "alpha-durgeth" and even the mini indicates an authoritative, or rather, dominant Durgeth Hero dude.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

How about Durgeth Ascendancy for the name change? The dictionary definition states "occupation of a position of dominant power or influence." I think that captures his position as an "alpha-durgeth" and even the mini indicates an authoritative, or rather, dominant Durgeth Hero dude.

Why is +2 necessary? +1 is plenty good.

I'd rather keep it Supremacy, even at +2. Scout Leadership gives +2 Move, even though other Leadership abilities give +1.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Why is +2 necessary? +1 is plenty good.

I'd rather keep it Supremacy, even at +2. Scout Leadership gives +2 Move, even though other Leadership abilities give +1.

+2 to give him some uniqueness. Not really sure how to justify it outside of that. I mean I understand it doesn't make much sense to increase the buff just because but it's also not sufficient to say he's even more supreme or even more of a leader, kinda like you would with an attack or defense stat (i.e. if a mini has a big sword, he probably has a strong attack, thus more dice). This type of ability doesn't really have a way to justify going higher based off of background bio, mini look etc. like you might with other abilities. So I don't really have a good answer.

That said, what if I were to change it slightly maybe here are a couple other ideas...

Durgeth Ascendancy
If every Army Card you control is a Durgeth, anytime you roll the 20-sided die for a Durgeth Army Card, you may add 2 to your die roll.

^Just a slight variation of the current power.

Savagery
If every Army Card you control is a Durgeth, each Savage you control receives 1 additional attack die.

^This is a completely different direction that the above ability, but came to mind as another way to strengthen the Durgeth. Rather than build a unit to buff their weaknesses...this is the opposite, an ability that buffs their strengths; which leaves their weaknesses, but also makes them significantly more strong and formidable when they do run around killing stuff.

EDIT: but then this would also restrict non-Durgeth Savage synergy, which right now would be really limiting...so maybe the "All Durgeth Army Cards" thing shouldnt be considered.

Thoughts?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

+2 to give him some uniqueness. Not really sure how to justify it outside of that.

Uniqueness is not an advantage, it's a disadvantage. Rather, being different just for the sake of being different is a bad thing, not a good thing. Similarity is valuable; any 'Scaper who sees "Durgeth Supremacy" knows what it is and how it works, or rather how it's supposed to work. A single glance at the card is all it takes. Whereas a slightly different power needs to be looked at carefully, adding to gametime complexity without benefiting gameplay.

What makes a custom unique is playing differently, not looking different. Making it a +2 instead of +1 just to be different is just noise which, if anything detracts from the actual uniqueness: Durgeth Supremacy. The armies it helps and the powers it boosts are entirely different than other Supremacy powers, and thus is completely different.

[Leaf_It]

I'd probably limit it to Savage instead of Durgeth if you're going with the "every army card you control" direction. Otherwise, I'd just leave it to Durgeth without restrictions.

[caps]

I agree that the Comfrey Plants should be left as a thing they make use of when they're not in the heat of battle.

[Lazy Orang]

I don't like the idea of going with an 'all your army is' power for such a fledgling factions. Feels far too restrictive. I'd never use him like that. Maybe 'all your OMs are on Savage/Durgeth cards'? Similar feel, more room for different army building.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Scytale

What makes a custom unique is playing differently, not looking different.

Very helpful insight here, thank you. I feel like I already knew this...but when you said it this time, it sunk in a little more.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I'd probably limit it to Savage instead of Durgeth if you're going with the "every army card you control" direction. Otherwise, I'd just leave it to Durgeth without restrictions.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I don't like the idea of going with an 'all your army is' power for such a fledgling factions. Feels far too restrictive. I'd never use him like that. Maybe 'all your OMs are on Savage/Durgeth cards'? Similar feel, more room for different army building.

So do you think Durgeth Supremacy would be too restricting? So go with Savage Supremacy? I guess the precedent there is with SBN not having Marro Supremacy specifically but rather Hive Supremacy which allowed him to buff both Marro and Wulsinu. So I think I could go with both and still be okay.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

I agree that the Comfrey Plants should be left as a thing they make use of when they're not in the heat of battle.

So you don't think this is something that could be represented in the life stat at all? Like if I gave Veguzza 7 or 8 life?

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

So do you think Durgeth Supremacy would be too restricting? So go with Savage Supremacy? I guess the precedent there is with SBN not having Marro Supremacy specifically but rather Hive Supremacy which allowed him to buff both Marro and Wulsinu. So I think I could go with both and still be okay.

Not necessarily, though opening up does sound better to me - I was mainly speaking of any power that requires your entire army to be Durgeth or Savages, 4th Mass style.