Shades of Bleakewoode

[My Darling Panzer]

I know this has likely been addressed 400+ times, but I was wondering if I am not giving the Shades enough credit. I'm not sure I've played a game where their Soul Devour ability has been successful, since it states that they must use it before moving. Because of this, they are always targeted and die before they can even attempt a soul devour.

Now part of this may be that I don't use order markers. I used to many years ago, but when my armies grew to such sizes, it became a bit of a disjointed experience to have a few figures move while dozens did nothing.

Thoughts?

[lefton4ya]

I agree - it is really hard o pull off. See my comment on The Book of Shades of Bleakewoode especially my CUA card that lest you try to devour before moving.

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

Phantom Knights have one more attack, one less move but stealth flying, and 3 extra defense against range, and cost 30 less. Even without the chance to take over a hero, they are WAY better than Shades of Bleakewoode and are therefore ranked A-/B+. I agree with above posters that Shades might be decent in Heat of Battle or really low start zone/figure count (12 or less) scenarios with some Crypt Guardians and Dumatef Guards, but not any other tournaments, and even then I'd probably still rather have Phantom Knights by a mile, as in 300 points you can have one extra squad of them.

If you want a "B" version of the card, see my Competitive Unit Alter of them:

[Muskie]

I agree that certain figures are not really playable, which is sad. Minor tweaks (or something addressed by a custom) could bring more variety. I have used shades only in scenario games where they fit the theme. They still did awful and died quickly compared to their cost. They looked cool in the graveyard.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Using Order Markers helps a lot, since that dictates a lot more of the options that people have. Though they're still bad competitively. They're swingy for sure, but I think it's good for the game to have some swingy figures (even if it's not my personal favorite play style). I've had enough fun with them in casual/alternate format games (dungeon crawls with them are super fun and intense). I also hear they're @Sir Heroscape 's bane. (Check spoiler below, start at 1:19:55)

Spoiler Alert!

https://youtu.be/qqHe0StRzBw?t=4795

[Sir Heroscape]

Bane indeed... I died that day.

[My Darling Panzer]

Especially for their point value. I've always thought that if it was "After moving", it would make more sense game and lore-wise. I expected some errata (like in other games such as X-Wing, etc.) to correct it, but I don't suppose that's ever come to pass. Also, since they're derned ghosts, maybe have an ability like Smoke Bomb where they can evade hits, again lore-wise.

As is, whenever one of us fields them, it's always for laughs, which definitely contributes to the fun of the game but perhaps not in the intended way.

[BiggaBullfrog]

"After moving" would be soooo bad for the game's health. Do you really want to give squad figures a guaranteed 3 chances in one turn to roll to not just destroy, but add to their own army a key figure from your army? Imagine getting to roll that much against a Nilfheim, Major Q9, Raelin, etc. Some swingy units are fine for the game, but that would be downright awful. That's why it's necessarily balanced to "before moving" to give players a chance to play around it. Yeah, it's not competitive, but not every figure is supposed to be.

[My Darling Panzer]

Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog

"After moving" would be soooo bad for the game's health. Do you really want to give squad figures a guaranteed 3 chances in one turn to roll to not just destroy, but add to their own army a key figure from your army? Imagine getting to roll that much against a Nilfheim, Major Q9, Raelin, etc. Some swingy units are fine for the game, but that would be downright awful. That's why it's necessarily balanced to "before moving" to give players a chance to play around it. Yeah, it's not competitive, but not every figure is supposed to be.

You have a good point, especially in a smaller game, but I tend to think toward larger games, so I might be biased here. 19-20 is so unlikely (yes, yes, you would get 3 chances...only if all 3 can crowd a hero or heroes), and, given that they're a squad with such an ability, they'll likely get their one shot and die, as opposed to moving adjacent only to die anyway. This way they would actually be swingy units. As is, they don't even get to roll, so they're just effectively screening units. I only time I can think of where one even got to roll was that the opposing player forgot about the Shade due to the size of the army and how much they're a non-threat.

Btw, pedantics, but hopefully most players would protect Raelin a little better than that than to allow her to be within 7 spaces of a shade (again, in a larger battle).

[Nomad]

We developed this figure as a custom to give the Shades a bit of a boost. Murazath makes them fun, well - not as bad. He can get the Shades into position and then hopefully enough of them survive to pull off Soul Devour and the next OM.



Murazath

[Snuffelupecus]

For me and my group, the Shades are stupidly overpowered and are the most powerful in the game when boosted so i'm not really sharing the same views y'all have about them being terrible. I have 2 of the squads (and we don't use the original card, we use the edited card the Lefton4ya posted up above) and then I have a guy who can resurrect undead, I use Crypt Guardian to turn the Sould Devour from a 19-20 to a 17-20, Can also Use Bogdan, who can give them another turn because he bonds with an undead squad. Pretty unstoppable usually, Of course, We don't play the original "Heroscape" way. But anyway, they seem to work very well for me

[lefton4ya]

I do think my CUA card might be overpowered as you can usually roll 2-3 times as often, plus I added 1 attack and 2 defense (against range normal). I think either changing the Soul Devour to add "Before or..." or the "Insubstantial 2" power is necessary, but both may be too much. @Nomad 's Murazath or some Crypt Guardians seem to really help them Devour, so maybe I will tweak my CUA to go back to the original power and just add attack and Insubstantial - they are still less defense and more expensive than Phantom Knights, but that ability to take over heroes is always a fun plus.

[Snuffelupecus]

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

I do think my CUA card might be overpowered as you can usually roll 2-3 times as often, plus I added 1 attack and 2 defense (against range normal). I think either changing the Soul Devour to add "Before or..." or the "Insubstantial 2" power is necessary, but both may be too much. @Nomad 's Murazath or some Crypt Guardians seem to really help them Devour, so maybe I will tweak my CUA to go back to the original power and just add attack and Insubstantial - they are still less defense and more expensive than Phantom Knights, but that ability to take over heroes is always a fun plus.

Yea we tweaked the card and made them 2attack 3defense, and then lowered the crypt guardians roll to a +1 and made him a unique. Seems to be balanced so far but only play tested it once I believe.