The Book of Man-Bat - Page 2

Karat · #13 June 4th, 2016, 02:09 PM

Instead of calling it Claw Carry, as that sounds a bit odd, I would call it Claw Grab or something similar.

Yodaking · #14 June 4th, 2016, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

6 Life seems really high, especially for a Batman villain. Unless he's typically shown being much more durable than most humans, I would drop it to 4 or 5.

Agreed. If he ends up with a defensive move power making him hard to chase down and actually hit I would cap him at 4 life for sure.

Arkham · #15 June 4th, 2016, 02:37 PM

If he has reactive movement it can be changed to normal movement specifically. Either way is fine.

As for life, I definitely think 6 is accurate. He is a large bat creature, he shouldn't be held at human life standards. Bane is at 6, Ivy is at 6, Clayface is at 6, Ra's is at 6, Joker is at 6, Man-Bat at 6 makes sense IMO.

The name of the power was debated. Claw Carry is what Bats felt ok with, but Claw Grab isn't bad, unfortunately it's already taken by the Man-Bat Assassins.

japes · #16 June 4th, 2016, 04:24 PM

For reference...

EVASIVE FLYING
When this Beast Boy starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When this Beast Boy rolls defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, 1 shield will block all damage, and you may immediately move this Beast Boy one space for each shield rolled.

STEALTH FLYING
When Morbius starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

ECHOLOCATION EVASION
Man-Bat never takes leaving engagements, and rolls 2 additional defense dice against non-adjacent attacks.

Between the three I like the last with maybe a little adjustment...

ECHOLOCATION EVASION
When Man-Bat starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks and he rolls 2 additional defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power.

Yodaking · #17 June 4th, 2016, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkham

As for life, I definitely think 6 is accurate. He is a large bat creature, he shouldn't be held at human life standards. Bane is at 6, Ivy is at 6, Clayface is at 6, Ra's is at 6, Joker is at 6, Man-Bat at 6 makes sense IMO.

Arkham · #18 June 4th, 2016, 05:58 PM

I posted the list of Batman characters not to compare Man-Bat to them, but rather in response to the idea that 6 life for a Batman villain is really high. 5 high ranking Batman villains with 6 life(one could also make the argument Croc could have 6 life, depending on the depiction), kind of proves that perception as a bit misguided, IMO. So to essentially state Man-Bat should have 4-5 life because he's merely a Batman villain, seems unfair.

As for those you listed in that point range, I certainly think he'd stand a chance in the majority of those contests, considering a good portion of them he could just pick up and drop from the sky. Of course, points aren't necessarily "who would win in a fight", and a 190 point character doesn't necessarily guarantee victory or outfighting a 180 point character. Mr. Freeze for example, would he really beat Bane or Luke Cage? Probably depends on a lot of factors.

I think shooting for 190-200 is certainly reasonable. However, I'm less concerned about the point value, and more concerned with getting the powers and stats right, and then adjusting the points as necessary. I don't exactly subscribe to the idea of a character not being accurate in a certain point range(barring extreme cases of course, a matter of ~25 points vs. 100+ off is quite different).

I'd say let's nail down the 3rd power first, then worry about things like life, defense, and points. Those can always be adjusted as needed, to make sure he's playing around the same level as his peers.

Ronin · #19 June 4th, 2016, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkham

I'd say let's nail down the 3rd power first, then worry about things like life, defense, and points. Those can always be adjusted as needed, to make sure he's playing around the same level as his peers.

I think 190-200 is where I'd like to see him wind up for points, but definitely agreed that we should sort out the third power first.

I might want a more general name for it, but I do like japes' suggestion here (a merger of Arkham's proposal with aspects of Evasive Flying):

Quote:

Originally Posted by japes

ECHOLOCATION EVASION
When Man-Bat starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks and he rolls 2 additional defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power.

japes · #20 June 4th, 2016, 06:36 PM

NAME = MAN-BAT ASSASSINS

SPECIES = METAHUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE SQUAD (3)
CLASS = ASSASSINS
PERSONALITY = FEROCIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 1

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4

POINTS = 150
and with Evasive Flying 1 shield blocks all wounds from non flyers (which is most of Bat family).

Instead of the Defense boost maybe just stick with Evasive Flying here as well. 1 Shield blocks seems better than +2 defense and seems like it would be more thematic. He is a hard to hit creature but his durability isn't his power. A defensive power that makes him hard to hit and a life of 4 or 5 seems right with a defense of 4 and Evasive Flying.

If you guys are pushing to lower his life, his defense, and not give him a defensive power though I'm siding with Ark a little here.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Ronin but yeah...the third power needs to be agreed upon here before we start getting into the Def and Life discussion as that will impact my feelings here.

Arkham · #21 June 4th, 2016, 07:21 PM

Im fine with the suggested power btw.

johnny139 · #22 June 5th, 2016, 12:38 AM

I agree that the first two powers are solid but I'm iffy on the third. I'd like to see either the reactive movement or the defense boost, not both. I'm fine with the LD's choice on that matter.

After that, I agree that the stats should go down. I'd rather see high Life with low Defense or vice-versa, depending on how you want to play the character. And Attack should probably drop too, since he'll have pretty consistent auto-wounds and he's never really been a bruiser.

Arkham · #23 June 5th, 2016, 02:21 AM

I'm thinking Evasive Flying has everything wrapped into one(no leaving engagements, advantage when non-adjacent, and some movement) and is an already made power so we're not making another new power here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkham

NAME = Man-Bat
SECRET IDENTITY = Kirk Langstrom
SPECIES = Human
UNIQUENESS = Unique Hero
CLASS = Creature
PERSONALITY = Conflicted
SIZE/HEIGHT = Medium 5

LIFE = 6
MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4
POINTS = 190

FIGHTING FOR CONTROL
Before taking a turn with Man-Bat if there is a figure adjacent to him, you must roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 2 from your roll for each wound marker on this card. If you roll a 2 or less, Man-Bat cannot move and must attack each adjacent figure once this turn with his normal attack.

CLAW CARRY
Man-Bat may choose one small or medium figure he passed over while flying. After moving, place the chosen figure on an adjacent space next to Man-Bat, and you may roll one unblockable attack die against the chosen figure. Man-Bat and any figure moved by Claw Carry never take leaving engagement attacks.

EVASIVE FLYING
When Man-Bat starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Man-Bat rolls defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, 1 shield will block all damage, and you may immediately move Man-Bat one space for each shield rolled.

Superstrength
Flying

However, I wouldn't be opposed to either other proposed options either, such as this:

ECHOLOCATION EVASION
When Man-Bat starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks and he rolls 2 additional defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure.

*I don't see why his echolocation should be negated if the other figure can fly, so if we're creating a new power I'd prefer to leave that part out.

or

ECHOLOCATION EVASION 11
When Man-Bat starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When a figure that was not within 3 spaces of Man-Bat prior to moving ends its movement within 3 spaces of Man-Bat, you may immediately roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, you may immediately move Man-Bat up to 3 spaces.

Viegon · #24 June 5th, 2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkham

NAME = Man-Bat
SECRET IDENTITY = Kirk Langstrom
SPECIES = Human
UNIQUENESS = Unique Hero
CLASS = Creature
PERSONALITY = Conflicted
SIZE/HEIGHT = Medium 5

LIFE = 6
MOVE = 7
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 4
POINTS = 190

FIGHTING FOR CONTROL
Before taking a turn with Man-Bat if there is a figure adjacent to him, you must roll the 20-sided die. Subtract 2 from your roll for each wound marker on this card. If you roll a 2 or less, Man-Bat cannot move and must attack each adjacent figure once this turn with his normal attack.

CLAW CARRY
Man-Bat may choose one small or medium figure he passed over while flying. After moving, place the chosen figure on an adjacent space next to Man-Bat, and you may roll one unblockable attack die against the chosen figure. Man-Bat and any Figures moved by Claw Carry never take leaving engagement attacks.

EVASIVE FLYING
When Man-Bat starts to fly, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks. When Man-Bat rolls defense dice against an attack from a non-adjacent figure without the Flying or Stealth Flying special power, 1 shield will block all damage, and you may immediately move Man-Bat one space for each shield rolled.

Superstrength
Flying

I like this version.

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