The Book of Red Tornado

[tcglkn]

That's what I thought.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

That second paragraph doesn’t seem workable.

[SirGalahad]

Why not?

Red Tornado is engaged with one figure and there is a second figure within range of the special attack.
Both figures are selected.
Attack dice are rolled.

Scenario 1 -
First figure defends and is destroyed, leaving Red Tornado unengaged.
Second figure defends.

Scenario 2 -
First figure defends and is not destroyed, leaving Red Tornado engaged.
Second figure is no longer available to be attacked.

I have always played him that way.

What someone tried to argue for (and I managed to convince him out of) was:

First figure defends and receives wound but is not destroyed.
First figure is moved by the rest of the SA, leaving Red Tornado unengaged.
Second figure now forced to defend.

My argument being that the figure movement occurs after the attack(s) have been resolved, so if Red Tornado remained engaged, that ended the attack portion of the power, and then the movement portion could begin.

[Ronin]

First paragraph of what A3n is saying is a reasonable take. Second paragraph sounds like an enormous rules headache. Saying "I didn't roll those attack dice against that figure originally, but now because some other thing happened, those attack dice were retroactively rolled against that figure" gets weird. You choose who's affected once.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

The second paragraph doesn’t work because in Heroscape when a single attack effects multiple people that’s established at the beginning of the attack before anything else happens and can’t be changed afterward. Either you’re effected or not, there is no ‘effected if’.

As far as I know, C3G has no rule overturning this and it would be a bad idea for it to do so. It would be a colossal rules mess. Heck, we just established the rules mess right here. Somehow destroying a figure counts but moving them away doesn’t? That’s weird in messy without even leaving the power much less factoring in the other 1000 plus cards.

[Matt Helm]

I would agree that it would be weird to affect the ranged figure after the engaged figure is destroyed. To me, you roll the dice once for all affected figures. Therefore, logic says that you would know the affected figures at the time of the roll. If Red Tornado is engaged to one figure than only that figure can be chosen to be affected by that attack role. Even if the figure is destroyed I wouldn’t think you could retroactively affect a non adjacent figure just because you “chose” the figure before the roll. To me, you shouldn’t be allowed to choose/target that figure in the first place.

[A3n]

Sorry I forgot this was a single roll for all affected figures. That does complicate it.

Because the card says to first choose the figures to attack. Remembering that cards override the rulebook. You do that first, then roll, then the defenders roll. If it was just a special power then it would be just that. But because it is an attack you cannot attack a non-adjacent figure if you are engaged to a different figure. So at what point is it the attack?

For simplicity sake I would say then that when you roll the "attack" dice is the trigger. therefore at that point the non-adjacent figure cannot be affected. so stay with the strict ruling as per my previous stated first paragraph. However I would point out at this point that if you were rolling dice for each separate figure then the second paragraph is valid.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by A3n

For simplicity sake I would say then that when you roll the "attack" dice is the trigger. therefore at that point the non-adjacent figure cannot be affected. so stay with the strict ruling as per my previous stated first paragraph. However I would point out at this point that if you were rolling dice for each separate figure then the second paragraph is valid.

[IAmBatman]

Yep, agree with all of that. And I think that's how the card is worded clearly. But cool with seeing a clarification written up for folks who want/need things clarified.

[Yodaking]

Sounds good!

[isherlock99]

SP needs updating to reflect the Champion class change.

[Lord Pyre]

Got it!