Helmaverse League International

[A3n]

Ok, so I decided I wanted to get my designs back up here. But since it's been a long time I thought I would take the opportunity to freshen them up a little. But still keep them at the simplistic level on par with the original Marvel HS characters. I have been doing the card art for @Matt Helm & his wonderful Helmaverse for a while now & love his take on the characters while remaining true to the original Marvel HS designs also. So rather than having to design all the characters I will just use his ones & for those that he doesn't have he has agreed to collaborate on the cards to ensure that they fit in the Helmaverse. Now rather than clog Matt's thread with the crude unpolished works. I decided to start this thread where we do all the back & forth. So please feel free to provide your opinions on the designs as we go, especially you @streaky2007 .

These are the characters I have designs for that Matt currently does not have in the works:
AbraKadabra - In playtesting.
Absorbing Man - Initial design now up.
Avalanche - Initial design now up.
Batgirl - Initial design now up.
Billy Batson - Initial design now up.
Bizarro - Initial design now up.
Blue Beetle - Initial design now up.
Booster Gold - Design discussion.
Cheetah - Initial design now up.
Diablo - Initial design now up.
Doomsday - Initial design now up.
Electra - Initial design now up.
Gambit - Initial design now up.
Harley Quinn - Initial design now up.
Hawkman - Initial design now up.
Hercules
Kobra - Initial design now up.
Malice
Man-Bat - Initial design now up.
Manhunter - Initial design now up.
Psylocke
Question
Scarecrow
Scourge
Steel
Weather Wizard
Wingmen of Thanagar - Initial design now up.


Carded designs:

Spoiler Alert!

Blackfire


Starfire

[A3n]

First up, just because it's a fairly simple design & I like the character:


BLACKFIRE

TAMARANIAN
UNIQUE HERO
PRINCESS
VENGEFUL
MEDIUM 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 4
Attack: 4
Defense: 5

Points: 170

JEALOUS RAGE
If Blackfire is attacking a figure that has the Flying or Stealth Flying special power and at least one revealed Order Marker on their card using a normal attack, add 2 dice to Blackfire’s attack.

STARBOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 7. Attack 3.
Each skull rolled counts for one additional hit. Starbolt Special Attack can only be used once per round.

Spoiler Alert!

BLACKFIRE

TAMARANIAN
UNIQUE HERO
PRINCESS
VENGEFUL
MEDIUM 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 4
Attack: 4
Defense: 5

Points: TBD

VENGEFUL PRINCESS
When attacking with her normal attack, if Blackfire attacks an opponent's figure that attacked a friendly figure this round you may add 2 dice to her attack.

STARBOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 7. Attack 3.
Each skull rolled counts for one additional hit. Starbolt Special Attack can only be used once per round.

[streaky2007]

Looking at the original card, this version seems more versatile than the Tamaran Hatred power. Her original class was Warrior. It may be worth going back to that to avoid a Vengeful Princess with the Vengeful Princess power. You’ve also dropped Super Strength. Was that intentional? Nice work. I’m looking forward to your cards in the Helmsverse.

[Matt Helm]

I like the simplicity and the intent of the powers. This is definitely a great start.

The few questions I would have are:

1) Why Blackfire before Starfire? Do you have a plan to make them similar? I'm not really up on either character all that much other than from some cartoons. No worries if you want Blackfire before Starfire I was just curious.

2) Vengeful Princess - I like it but I'm afraid of tracking the targets. Do you have any concern that it wouldn't be clean to say "attacked a friendly figure this round"? It seems simple enough in a two player game but does it get more difficult in a 3 player or 4 player free for all to track every enemy who attacked a friendly? What about squad figures? If one squad figure attacks does she get the bonus against any figure in that squad?

[streaky2007]

Reading a bit more into Blackfire, I would say she’s mote manipulative than vengeful. The power reads like a passionate defense of her teammates, but she’s sociopathic and sees everyone as her pawns. She does have a chip on her shoulder about not being able to fly, so how about just +2 against Flying/Stealth Flying? That even helps overcome some of the huge advantage of Flying.

[A3n]

Originally Posted by streaky2007

Looking at the original card, this version seems more versatile than the Tamaran Hatred power. Her original class was Warrior. It may be worth going back to that to avoid a Vengeful Princess with the Vengeful Princess power. You’ve also dropped Super Strength. Was that intentional? Nice work. I’m looking forward to your cards in the Helmsverse.

Yeah I wanted to make her more of a universal douche-bag than the narrow version of the original. I agree about the Vengeful Princess with Vengeful Princess power, I just couldn't think of a better name for the power as Tamaran Hatred didn't work anymore. Yeah the super strength was a conscious drop. I just wasn't convinced she was justified it.

Originally Posted by Matt Helm

I like the simplicity and the intent of the powers. This is definitely a great start.

The few questions I would have are:

1) Why Blackfire before Starfire? Do you have a plan to make them similar? I'm not really up on either character all that much other than from some cartoons. No worries if you want Blackfire before Starfire I was just curious.

2) Vengeful Princess - I like it but I'm afraid of tracking the targets. Do you have any concern that it wouldn't be clean to say "attacked a friendly figure this round"? It seems simple enough in a two player game but does it get more difficult in a 3 player or 4 player free for all to track every enemy who attacked a friendly? What about squad figures? If one squad figure attacks does she get the bonus against any figure in that squad?

1). Because I hadn't gotten to Starfire yet in translating my original cards to a text file. I only gotten down "D" in the list & of those I Starfire was the one I wanted to see changed the most. I will probably do Starfire next just to ensure we have the pair out there.

2). You are 100% correct (as always). I rarely think about more than 2 players in a game. So...

Originally Posted by streaky2007

Reading a bit more into Blackfire, I would say she’s mote manipulative than vengeful. The power reads like a passionate defense of her teammates, but she’s sociopathic and sees everyone as her pawns. She does have a chip on her shoulder about not being able to fly, so how about just +2 against Flying/Stealth Flying? That even helps overcome some of the huge advantage of Flying.

Yes she is manipulative, yes she is a sociopath, but they are just tools to her ultimate goal that destroying her sister & all Tamaranian's that supported her sister or had something to do with Blackfire's exile. Which is why I originally had the Tamaranian hatred power.

Having said that, & as I stated above I wanted her to be more universally hated. So I can get behind the hate of flyers, however it kinds of ruins the small symmetry I planned for Starfire. In fact I will post that design up now to consider while we work on Blackfire.

[A3n]

STARFIRE

TAMARANIAN
UNIQUE HERO
PRINCESS
FIERY
MEDIUM 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 4
Attack: 4
Defense: 5

Points: 190

HOT HEAD
When Starfire attacks using a normal attack, she receives one extra attack die for each friendly figure within 3 clear sight spaces that has at least 1 wound marker on their card, up to a maximum of 3 extra attack dice for Hot Head.

STARBOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 7. Attack 3.
Each skull rolled counts for one additional hit. Starbolt Special Attack can only be used once per round.

FLYING
When counting spaces for Starfire's movement, ignore elevations. Starfire may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Starfire starts to fly, if she is engaged she will take any leaving engagement attacks.


Initial design

Spoiler Alert!

STARFIRE

TAMARANIAN
UNIQUE HERO
PRINCESS
FIERY
MEDIUM 5

Life: 5
Move: 6
Range: 4
Attack: 4
Defense: 5

Points: 190

HOT HEAD
When rolling attack dice for a normal attack, you may add X dice to your roll up to an additional three dice. X is equal to the number of friendly figures within 3 spaces of Starfire that have at least 1 wound marker on their card.

STARBOLT SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 7. Attack 4.
Each skull rolled counts for one additional hit. Starbolt Special Attack can only be used once per round.

FLYING
When counting spaces for Starfire's movement, ignore elevations. Starfire may fly over water without stopping, pass over figures without becoming engaged, and fly over obstacles such as ruins. When Starfire starts to fly, if she is engaged she will take any leaving engagement attacks.

[streaky2007]

I like Starfire. She's compassionate and protective. For Hot Head, I would probably go for something like this:

When attacking with Starfire's normal attack, you may choose up to 3 friendly figures within 3 (clear sight) spaces. Add 1 to your roll for each chosen figure. Figures chosen for this power must have at least 1 wound marker on their card.

I'm just thinking of younger players and how to read a power in order, broken into small sentences.

As for the Blackfire synergy, I would suggest keeping the flying thing, but an extra +1 if the player controls any Tamaranian figures.
I did read the 80s Wolfman/Perez run years ago, but haven't seen Blackfire much since, so you go with what feels more thematic to you.

PS - You're Austalian, Matt's from the US and I'm from the UK. I nominate this venture as Helmsverse League International (better let Matt be Blue Beetle though )

[A3n]

Not the style of wording for the power I was trying to emulate but definitely a valid & easier to understand verbiage.

I think this is more succinct if you don't think it would trip up anybody's understanding of it:

When attacking with Starfire's normal attack, you may choose up to 3 friendly figures within 3 clear sight spaces. Add 1 to your roll for each chosen figure with at least 1 wound marker on their card.

By the way it was definitely supposed to be clear sight spaces. Not sure how or where I dropped that off.

Now Blackfire. So your suggestion:

When attacking with her normal attack, if Blackfire attacks an opponent's figure with the flying Special Power you may add 2 dice to her attack. Add an additional die to her attack if the opponent's figure is Tamaranian.

And then a modified but easier to track version of what I was thinking:

When attacking with her normal attack, if Blackfire attacks an opponent's figure with a revealed Order Marker on their Army Card you may add 2 dice to her attack.

Also love the name suggestion. Thread title updated.

BTW: The power name "Hot Head" was stolen from @IAmBatman 's orginal design. I believe I probably have stolen quite a few more titles from him for other upcoming designs. It's hard not use them when you have seen the perfect name. A lot of his titles are pun-tastic which is why you know he must be a great dad because as you know, puns are the butt of all dad jokes.

[streaky2007]

Your re-wording of my re-wording is much better. Your re-done Vengeful Princess power works well too. Go with that if you prefer it to the flying thing. Good work

[Matt Helm]

Holy lots of discussion Batman!

Let me first say that I love it. It's almost like the old days. I know we are all way busier with our work and families than we were back in the day but it's still fun to do this when we can. Of course we do have to change the spelling of the thread title to HelmAverse League International.

I like the Starfire and Blackfire designs thus far and I'm excited to see them be done together with such similarities. This is good stuff, especially since the Helm boys just noted last weekend that we probably should have Starfire on our radar.

STARFIRE

For HOT HEAD, I don't think we want to "add to your roll" as that is a 20-sided die power wording. Instead we want to add attack dice.

HOT HEAD
When attacking with Starfire's normal attack, you may choose up to 3 friendly figures within 3 clear sight spaces. Add 1 to your attack dice for each chosen figure with at least 1 wound marker on their card.

or, using Incredible Hulk as the template, I kind of like this better:

HOT HEAD
When Starfire attacks using a normal attack, she receives one extra attack die for each friendly figure within 3 clear sight spaces that has at least 1 wound marker on their card, up to a maximum of 3 extra attack dice for Hot Head.

[Matt Helm]

BLACKFIRE

I like the direction that both of you are heading with the OM and the Flying triggers for her bonus. My only concern is to not strip some other characters of the uniqueness that defines them. Black Adam adds attack dice for revealed OMs and Hawkgirl gets bonuses against Flyers (well at least on her SA).

Still, I think we can definitely make Blackfire incorporate those two elements. I would leave out the Tamaranian bonus as it only affects one other figure (or against herself if some players do that kind of thing).

JEALOUS RAGE
When Blackfire attacks a figure with the Flying or Stealth Flying special power and at least one revealed Order Marker on their card using a normal attack, she receives two extra attack dice.

Or based on official Brandis Skyhunter:

JEALOUS RAGE
If Blackfire is attacking a figure that has the Flying or Stealth Flying special power and at least one revealed Order Marker on their card using a normal attack, add 2 dice to Blackfire’s attack.

I'm not sure if this fits with your original version but I thought I'd throw it out there for discussion.