The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Leaf_It]

Hello. Ever since I read Estivara's card, I have wished that Utgar had a squad of Spiders to pair with her. The Class of Arachnomancer pushes this even further, providing a unique class for a future arachnid squad to reference. Once I saw the Xualtiaca Fire Ants, I realized that there's tons of small Halloween spider toys that could be used. This was years ago. Back in 2018 I came up with a design. I playtested it, but the figure I was planning to use increased in price to a point that I did not feel it was acceptable.

A couple days ago I though to check for a new figure to use. I found small black plastic spiders. I would like to know if this figure is acceptable to the SoV judges.


It fits pretty well on a small D&D base


The eagle eyed may have realized something pretty quickly. These are not tall figures. It is already a stretch for the Ants and Bees to be height 2. These guys would definitely be height 1. This means that the Spiders would not be engaged with, and therefore could not attack, or be attacked by, figures that were not on even ground, or lower.


Here is the design:

NAME = SPIDERS OF LOLTH
GENERAL = UTGAR
PLANET = TORIL
SPECIES = ARACHNIDS
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = PREDATORS
PERSONALITY = WILD
SIZE/HEIGHT = SMALL 1

1 LIFE (4 figures)
7 MOVE
1 RANGE
2 ATTACK
1 DEFENSE
50 POINTS

Webbing:
All small or medium opponent's figures adjacent to a Spider of Lolth may not leave engagement with a Spider of Lolth. Figures affected by Webbing cannot leave engagement with a Spider of Lolth due to any special power on any army card, or glyph.

Arachnid Movement Bonding:
After revealing an Order Marker on, and taking a turn with the Spiders of Lolth, if at least 2 Spiders of Lolth are engaged you may immediately move one Arachnomancer hero, or one Arachnid hero, that you control up to 5 spaces.

Arachnid Spatulae 3:
Spiders of Lolth are considered to have a height of 3. When moving up or down levels of terrain, Spiders of Lolth may triple this to a height of 9.

Spatulae are the tiny hairs on spider feet that allow them to cling to any surface.

The height issues are addressed by packaging and theming the climbing ability in a way that allows it to attack and be attacked as though they were a taller figure.

[Dysole]

Should be "affected" in the first power.

I'm game for more spiders. It does strike me as a bit odd that Lloth who's basically a goddess of spiders would have little tiny spiders. I'm kinda on the fence about a power that feels like it's working around a mini limitation.

~Dysole, who needs to at least sleep on it

[Shadowking]

I have been trying to test the new version of Morag/Kafnirra out (not that too much has changed in actual mechanical terms with her), and one of the big things that comes up with the changes is that you can no longer have a different Human Champion as the MacDirk's Highland Champion and still have them bond with her.

Are there any issues with this tweaked version, which essentially does the same thing in most cases except still allows you to use her with MacDirks but also pair them with another Highland Champion? (I'm not sure if the wording on it should be something like "any MacDirk Warriors in your army" or "the MacDirk Warriors in your army")

[Blue Trails]

I share Dysole's concern about Arachnid Spatulae 3. Maybe you could play into the idea of wall/ceiling-crawling and unusual angles of attack by making it change the Spiders effective height while also giving them some sort of benefit against figures adjacent to obstacles or higher elevations.

---------------

Sonya Esenwein provides precedent for a special power that checks for the existence of another unit within a player's army, so Morag's Highland Champion power could copy that terminology with the wording "at the start of the game, if you control MacDirk Warriors...". I don't think the second sentence of Highland Champion is strictly necessary, though. If the power's first sentence "activates" at the start of the game, the MacDirks should be able to select her because Highland Fury also activates during the game's setup.

[MegaSilver]

I still feel like I'd have a hard time justifying her in a build when she has 2 base attack at 80 pts.

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Hello. Ever since I read Estivara's card, I have wished that Utgar had a squad of Spiders to pair with her. The Class of Arachnomancer pushes this even further, providing a unique class for a future arachnid squad to reference. Once I saw the Xualtiaca Fire Ants, I realized that there's tons of small Halloween spider toys that could be used. This was years ago. Back in 2018 I came up with a design. I playtested it, but the figure I was planning to use increased in price to a point that I did not feel it was acceptable.

A couple days ago I though to check for a new figure to use. I found small black plastic spiders. I would like to know if this figure is acceptable to the SoV judges.


It fits pretty well on a small D&D base


The eagle eyed may have realized something pretty quickly. These are not tall figures. It is already a stretch for the Ants and Bees to be height 2. These guys would definitely be height 1. This means that the Spiders would not be engaged with, and therefore could not attack, or be attacked by, figures that were not on even ground, or lower.


Here is the design:

Spatulae are the tiny hairs on spider feet that allow them to cling to any surface.

The height issues are addressed by packaging and theming the climbing ability in a way that allows it to attack and be attacked as though they were a taller figure.

To me these sculpts are clearly too small for heroscape. The mechanics issue can be solved (not sure I like the potential solutions) but these miniatures do not pass muster for me.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by superfrog

To me these sculpts are clearly too small for heroscape. The mechanics issue can be solved (not sure I like the potential solutions) but these miniatures do not pass muster for me.

In the scale of HeroScape, these things are still the size of relatively large dog. Don't let the Wolves of Badru fool you, those things are the size of a Motor Cycle. A person could ride a Wolf of Badru.

As far as the ability that just makes them taller, if it would help, I could just put height of 2 on the card, and give them Climb x4. I went this route because they are visually shorter than the other shortest things, which arguably should have been height 1 as well.

Sure, they are smaller, but are they really so small they look like they don't belong? So small they wouldn't be a threat?

[Taeblewalker]

I believe the C3G uses smaller sculpts for Atom and Ant-man, and those work.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

As far as the ability that just makes them taller, if it would help, I could just put height of 2 on the card, and give them Climb x4. I went this route because they are visually shorter than the other shortest things, which arguably should have been height 1 as well.

I wouldn't vote for it with Arachnid Spatulae 3. I can live with the small size of the mini, and I can squint and live with Height 2, though a bit larger mini would be preferable.

As for the rest of the design, they cannot be Predators thanks to Predator Bonding. Webbing doesn't really do much except against Disengage figures, and is a defender-type power on a unit that has no business being a defender. So almost not a power. Arachnid Movement Bonding being post-turn sucks given their speed and crappy defense. Most of all, though, despite the name and homeworld these don't feel "Lolth-y" to me.


I like the updated Morag, except I don't much like the name. There's nothing actually wrong with it, I just don't like it. If it was some monster or creature I'd like it, maybe even for an evil demihuman, but for a Jandar archer hero I don't like it.

[Shadowking]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I wouldn't vote for it with Arachnid Spatulae 3. I can live with the small size of the mini, and I can squint and live with Height 2, though a bit larger mini would be preferable.

As for the rest of the design, they cannot be Predators thanks to Predator Bonding. Webbing doesn't really do much except against Disengage figures, and is a defender-type power on a unit that has no business being a defender. So almost not a power. Arachnid Movement Bonding being post-turn sucks given their speed and crappy defense. Most of all, though, despite the name and homeworld these don't feel "Lolth-y" to me.


I like the updated Morag, except I don't much like the name. There's nothing actually wrong with it, I just don't like it. If it was some monster or creature I'd like it, maybe even for an evil demihuman, but for a Jandar archer hero I don't like it.

Ah OK, I was just trying to go for a name that was stereotypically Scottish-Gaelic sounding and relatively easy to read (which was a harder thing than it sounded), Eilidh or Brigdhe were my other two initial ideas if you think either of them is any better than Morag?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Shadowking

Ah OK, I was just trying to go for a name that was stereotypically Scottish-Gaelic sounding and relatively easy to read (which was a harder thing than it sounded), Eilidh or Brigdhe were my other two initial ideas if you think either of them is any better than Morag?

I like Brigdhe better. But this is just a personal preference thing; there isn't anything wrong with Morag that I'm aware of.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I wouldn't vote for it with Arachnid Spatulae 3. I can live with the small size of the mini, and I can squint and live with Height 2, though a bit larger mini would be preferable.

As for the rest of the design, they cannot be Predators thanks to Predator Bonding. Webbing doesn't really do much except against Disengage figures, and is a defender-type power on a unit that has no business being a defender. So almost not a power. Arachnid Movement Bonding being post-turn sucks given their speed and crappy defense. Most of all, though, despite the name and homeworld these don't feel "Lolth-y" to me.

Alright, I'll change them to Hunters, or some other thematically similar class.

You're completely wrong about Webbing though. You're looking at it as though it's a single figure. It's a 4 figure squad. Just 2 of them, and the figure is effectively Cyberclawed. They were not given this to be defenders, they were given this because they are spiders, and giant spider webs would logically make it hard to move, and potentially prevent you from moving entirely.

As for the Lolth-i-ness, I suppose that's fair. I made them with Estivara in mind, so I chose the name that fit her spider buffing power. For a more appropriate name that still fits with Toril, I'd probably go with "Giant Cave Spiders" or something similar.