The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

Just spitballing a way for Estivata to improve them without making them too much better than they are without here.

STINGER VENOW
When attacking with a High Dunes Scorpion, if at least one skull is rolled, the defending figure subtracts [X] defense dice.

Make X whatever you want, so long as it’s a flat defense reduction instead of increasing with the number of skulls rolled. That way, Estivara makes you more likely to hit the defense reduction, and capitalize off of it with an extra skull, without chucking 2-3 defense reduction at the defending figure.

I agree, Einar doesn’t fit as well as say, Utgar it Aquilla. And Valhalla makes more sense than Arctorus, unless the Scorpions have some other special feature that only comes from Arctorus.

Funny you mentioned that, cause we actually already discussed that exact adjustment to the ability after a few initial tests which showed the current version pretty strong. So I think we will be going with that version moving forward.

[Leaf_It]

I think I posted an older version of this design in here last year some time. Anyway, I'm looking for feedback on it again. Last time I had selected a different figure, unfortunately that figure is no longer available in quantities that would be acceptable, so I ave selected a different figure that can still be found in high enough quantities.

Bending Reed Stance:
When rolling defense dice, if Lee Jun successfully defended against the attack, place a Stance marker on this card, up to a maximum of 3. After attacking with Lee Jun, you may remove 1 Stance marker from this card, if you do, you may attack again.

Close Quarters Expert:
Lee Jun rolls one additional defense die for each opponent's figure he is engaged to.

Stealth Leap 25:
Instead of his normal move, Lee Jun may use Stealth Leap 25. Stealth Leap 25 has a move of 3. When counting spaces for Stealth Leap 25, ignore elevations. Lee Jun may leap over water without stopping, leap over figures without becoming engaged, and leap over obstacles such as ruins. Lee Jun may not leap more than 25 levels up or down in a single leap. If Lee Jun is engaged when he starts his Stealth Leap 25, he will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Close Quarters Expert is a reuse of the Varkaanan Blade Dancers' ability "Varkaanan Blade Defense", renamed to be reusable on other cards.

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I think I posted an older version of this design in here last year some time. Anyway, I'm looking for feedback on it again. Last time I had selected a different figure, unfortunately that figure is no longer available in quantities that would be acceptable, so I ave selected a different figure that can still be found in high enough quantities.

Close Quarters Expert is a reuse of the Varkaanan Blade Dancers' ability "Varkaanan Blade Defense", renamed to be reusable on other cards.

Seems like a cool design! The one thing that stood out to me is that I don't think there's any precedent for the terminology of "successfully defended against the attack." I would recommend using the same wording as Yi Feng's Iron Shirt Mastery here, especially since both figures are within the same faction.

Bending Reed Stance:
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack, if Lee Jung receives no wounds from the attack, place a Stance marker on this card, up to a maximum of 3. After attacking with Lee Jun, you may remove 1 Stance marker from this card, if you do, you may attack again.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

That would work just fine, but I'll wait for input from the SoV judges before changing it.

[Astroking112]

I remember the old sculpt for this one. It's a pity that it won't work anymore; I thought that the coloration was nice and there is a dearth of female characters in general.

I agree with Captain Stupendous' proposed revision (I was going to suggest something similar myself, actually). "Successfully defended against the attack" feels confusing--does a whiff by the opponent count as a successful defense, for example? I think that it's better to stick to the established (and slightly clearer) wording of "received no wounds."

I'm not a huge fan of the power name "Close Quarters Expert" (in my opinion something like "Close Combat Expert" sounds better) but that's a really minor qualm.

Is the intent that Bending Reed Stance can be used multiple times to get up to 4 attacks in one turn? I don't think that it would be untenable at a first glance (and it feels more like the established Monk archetype that way), but it's probably best to specify the intent either way.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I remember the old sculpt for this one. It's a pity that it won't work anymore; I thought that the coloration was nice and there is a dearth of female characters in general.

Yeah, I was hoping I could keep with the old figure too.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I agree with Captain Stupendous' proposed revision (I was going to suggest something similar myself, actually). "Successfully defended against the attack" feels confusing--does a whiff by the opponent count as a successful defense, for example? I think that it's better to stick to the established (and slightly clearer) wording of "received no wounds."

I'll probably change it to that. The intention was that you wouldn't be able to get it from a blanked attack, but I realize that there's nothing in the current wording that says that.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I'm not a huge fan of the power name "Close Quarters Expert" (in my opinion something like "Close Combat Expert" sounds better) but that's a really minor qualm.

I actually went back and forth between "Close Quarters" and "Close Combat" quite a bit. CQC is a very common abbreviation that literally means Close Quarters Combat, and I considered using "Close Quarters Combat Expert" because of that. In the end I settled on "Close Quarters" because my roommate liked that one better.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Is the intent that Bending Reed Stance can be used multiple times to get up to 4 attacks in one turn? I don't think that it would be untenable at a first glance (and it feels more like the established Monk archetype that way), but it's probably best to specify the intent either way.

Yes, 4 attacks is the intended maximum. I don't feel like this should be a problem. It takes time to build up that maximum, so you'll rarely actually get to use 4 attacks in a turn, and most of the monks we already have can attack all adjacent figures, netting up to 6 (or if you specifically design the map for it, 12) attacks in a single turn.

[Splash]

Hi everybody, so from what I understand this is like the Public Design Workshop for C3V/SOV? I wrote up an armored war elephant similar to this one
Still working on finding the rider/general/mahout
Here's the mini!

GENERAL = Einar
NAME = Ajay Shah III
SPECIES = Human
UNIQUENESS = Unique
CLASS = Warlord
PERSONALITY = Disciplined
SIZE/HEIGHT = Huge 8

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 4
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5
POINTS = 210

POWER 1: Trample Stomp
At any point while moving, Ajay Shah III may choose a small or medium figure that is adjacent, on the same level, and on a space where Ajay Shah III may end his movement. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 1-7, the figure is safe and Ajay Shah III's movement ends. If you roll 8-20, the chosen figure receives one wound. If the wound destroys the figure, move Ajay Shah III onto the space occupied, and you may continue Ajay Shah III's movement. If the chosen figure is not destroyed, Ajay Shah III's movement ends. Ajay Shah III must be on a space where he can end movement each time he uses this power.
POWER 2: Steady Charge
Ajay Shah III rolls 1 additional attack dice when attacking any figure or destructible object that was at least 1 clear sight space away from Ajay Shah III at the start of his turn. Ajay Shah cannot use Steady Charge if he already used Trample Stomp this turn.
POWER 3: Dismiss The Rabble
When rolling defense dice against adjacent attacking small or medium Squad figures, Ajay Shah III receives 1 additional defense die.

Still working on a rider, found this on ebay, might work.

[Sir Heroscape]

@Leaf_It really like the monk. It feel simple, thematic and a fit with the other monks. I like the name Bending Reed Stance...I think it's a really good name for what you're doing i.e. defending, defending, defending and then snapping back into action. I agree you could probably make the close quarters name a little better, I like Astro's suggestion. And I also agree using the precedent from Yi Fang for not taking wounds in Bending Reed makes sense.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I'll probably change it to that. The intention was that you wouldn't be able to get it from a blanked attack, but I realize that there's nothing in the current wording that says that.

It would get a lot wordier to avoid that. Better to leave as-is, with rewording to be like Iron Shirt. Also, you need to limit to working against normal attacks (like Iron Shirt), or there are potentially insurmountable problems.

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Yes, 4 attacks is the intended maximum. I don't feel like this should be a problem. It takes time to build up that maximum, so you'll rarely actually get to use 4 attacks in a turn, and most of the monks we already have can attack all adjacent figures, netting up to 6 (or if you specifically design the map for it, 12) attacks in a single turn.

Differentiating between repeatable attacks and single bonus attacks is one of the most annoying wording problems we Editors face. The precedent is clear: compare Battle Frenzy "you may attack again with ..." to Double Attack "... may attack one additional time." As clear as the precedent is, though, in pure English terms either of them could mean repeatable only only one. We had to change the name of Reckless Second Swing (I don't remember what it was initially) to suggest the correct reading of the power by adding "Second" in the name.

Simply put, it's easy to go either way with the wording, but either way it's going to confuse people. That's just how things go.


Overall, I like Lee Jun. It feels like Bending Reed Stance isn't worth using an order marker mechanic, but there really isn't another way to do something like it. I kinda feel that his Defense is one too high, as he will be Defense 4 minimum when engaged, but that's more of a question of potency for the price than a thematic issue.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Splash

Hi everybody, so from what I understand this is like the Public Design Workshop for C3V/SOV? I wrote up an armored war elephant similar to this one
Still working on finding the rider/general/mahout
Here's the mini!

[IMG]I'll figure out a link to the X-2 card tomorrow sometime[/IMG]

This isn't a public design workshop per se. This is a refinement workshop. This thread is intended for designs that have already been workshopped elsewhere and playtested to some extent, and are looking for further input and refinement in preparation for an SoV submission.

A war elephant would be awesome, but I see two potential problems with it (and I haven't checked availability). First, does the miniature fit well on a peanut base? If not it's a no-go. Second, I don't see human riding it.

As for the design, the stats and name are all good, and I appreciate the fitting reuses of Trample Stomp and Dismiss the Rabble. There are two core problems here, though. First, it arguably outshines Tor-Kul-Na. Trample Stomp is the key power of TKN and the source of much of his damage, and this guy does the same thing for 45 less points. A little less Life, Move, and Attack arguably balance that out, but this one has magnificent bonding options. I would almost always choose Ajay and a squad of Romans or Sacred Band over Tor-Kul-Na. And that's even before considering the other two powers.

Second, the amount of text. We have limited card space to work with, and Trample Stomp pretty much takes up a whole card by itself (as TKN demonstrates). Adding more powers to go alongside it just isn't tenable. Maybe one short power, but definitely not two mid-length ones.

[Leaf_It]

I am open to name suggestions for "close quarters expert". Does "close quarters combat expert" sound better?

I really want Bending Reed to work on specials so long as a skull is rolled. Maybe something based on vanish could work? Something like;

Bending Reed Stance:
If Lee Jun is attacked and at least 1 skull is rolled, if Lee Jun receives no wounds from the attack, place a Stance marker on this card, up to a maximum of 3. After attacking with Lee Jun, you may remove 1 Stance marker from this card, if you do, you may attack again.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I am open to name suggestions for "close quarters expert". Does "close quarters combat expert" sound better?

I really want Bending Reed to work on specials so long as a skull is rolled. Mange something based on vanish could work? Something like;

Allowing it to work on specials changes it from "trivial" to "extremely hazardous." Special attacks, by definition, break the rules of the game in any and every way, so anything allowed to trigger on them is asking for trouble. Is there some reason you want it to work on specials?