Delta: latest updates and discussion

[Sherman Davies]

Any idea when the OP will be updated with the latest costs?

[ryguy266]

I think it's time to talk about Raelin again. As a wise man once said:

Originally Posted by dok

Raelin could probably go to 150 and she would still see play. She will see play even when overpriced because she is often the most logical add due to universal synergy. The goal is not to make her overpriced, but 135 is not overpriced.

Raelin has now appeared in 14/14 VCheese finalists' armies for OHS and OST events and Scapecon events. She's also appeared in a whopping 24/28 semi-finalists armies (source: Foudzing). Now, none of these events use Delta pricing, but I think that's a very strong statistic to demonstrate her status as the strongest unit in the game, with "strongest" here meaning her ability to most improve your winning chances against any army without her out of any unit that exists.

I also just finished as an OHS season finalist on the back of Raelin in a Delta event. This was an event with a point total designed to make it as painful as possible to take any 135 point unit, especially for Jandar, and yet she was still in 2 playoff armies, the other of which got knocked out only by my own Raelin army. And the rest of the armies were mostly just Romans, who were perfect and obvious for the format, and didn't benefit from Raelin. So still, in a Delta format where the point total was designed to limit her usefulness, she still created opportunities for strong contenders in the face of Roman domination.

All of the Delta team know all this, but it might be helpful seeing it laid out. I'm not saying she deserves to go up to 150 points...yet. I think 150 or even 160 is still not overpriced, considering the increased cost of most things that can challenge her in Delta. But I think a 5 point increase is a good start.

[Chris Perkins]

I still like 135 for Raelin.

I've definitely passed on her in some Delta armies at 135, and included her in others, which is a nice combo. At this point, I think it's to where she's a good include for the armies that really need her (i.e. your Harq army; Harq with 1 defense is so bad...) and overpriced for those that don't need her (mostly they'd just get more of themselves for 135 points).

I don't mind Raelin being an auto-include with super-low defense things like Harq though; they're probably unplayable without her. I don't love the idea of bumping Raelin, then needing to drop units like Harq later.

But, more importantly, when I'm building armies I don't tend to think she's a figure I should work to find a way to include at 135, which is great. That's my biggest metric for evaluating cheerleader units in delta.

My thoughts at this point, anyways.

[Foudzing]

Imo Raelin is one of the figure that is hurt the most by point increase for example a 350pts delta game, Raelin is like half of your army, it's a big sacrifice.
I agree with Chris I think Raelin is fine at 135, she only sees plays with very specific units like Ashigarus Harqebus, imo your performance s more due to Harquebus being a superb delta unit than Raelin bering a superb delta unit (even if both works together).

Ashigarus are 65 in delta, compared to the whopping 100pts of the 10th it's free real estate imo. I don't know why you would even pick 10th, like 3x10th is 300pts for the same cost you can go 3xHarqs+Rae sotm that's better imo cause Raelin also benefit the other stuff in your army, and if you have 30 points to spare you can upgrade the Raelin and that's not even close.

Imo Harqs should see a +5, yeah they are hurt by Raelin pts increase but most of their counters (if not all of them) are also very hurt by delta, just my opinion.

[dok]

Originally Posted by Sherman Davies

Any idea when the OP will be updated with the latest costs?

Updated. Sorry for the delay.

[dok]

The January update of Delta is here. Not a huge change list but hitting a few notable things.

Oops files

Spoiler Alert!

Spartacus 175->195
Capuan Gladiators 75->70
Priscus 80->70
Tetraites 100->95

Templar Cavalry 70->75

OK, the two VC Gladiator heroes dropping more isn't an "oops", but Spartacus and the squad are reversions back in the direction of the original pricing. This is a slight bump (5 points) to the "standard" steamroller, but alternative options are a bit less expensive than before.

The Templar Cavalry see a small bump after some impressive recent results; it turns out that 50 points was a bit too much of a discount for them.

Faction adjustments

Spoiler Alert!

Varkaanan Swiftfangs 90->100
Arktos 115->120
Varkaanan Greyspears 130->135
Manauvi 75->70
Varkaanan Quickblades 105->100
Varkaanan Darkclaws 115->110

Ashigaru Harquebus 65->70
Ashigaru Yari 35->30
Kato Katsuro 160->150

Goblin Slashers 55->50
Koggo 45->40
Urk 50->30

The Varks get a slight bump in price in the most common tournament configurations, but it's mostly a redistribution with the 4-figure squads and ranged components becoming more expensive. The Ashigaru see more of the price shift towards the Harqs - Kato Swarms become cheaper then before, but Harq spam becomes more expensive. The Slashers see some discounts.

Misc. Adjustments

Spoiler Alert!

Krav Maga Agents 115->120
Earth Elemental 30->25
Tul-Bak-Ra 90->85
Zombie Hulk 60->50

Krav are still good. Others are less so.

[Sir Heroscape]

These seem like reasonable adjustments.

[Killometer]

NorCal has a Delta pricing tourney coming up, so I made a Delta Excel table sortable by several things relevant to its army building rules. Download here.

[Grey Waves]

Are we getting a delta update this month? There are still a few figures that are definitely a little under/overcosted right now (e.g. Gothlok, Othkurik, I've heard a couple people say that the Microcorp Agents are slightly too cheap at the moment...)