Wargrounds of Scape (WoS) - discussion thread

[Foudzing]

Hi Superfrog and thank you for your nomination.

Unfortunately "added to my collection" does not equal "WoS serious candidate right there", I have a lot of maps in my collection and some are not balanced at all.

I said your map is solid because I love the basic design and shape: ring around the big tree, lava on heigt + road but not so much LoS blockers so good potential in range vs melee balance.
But I didn't look really into the map to see if it was balance and stuff.
Let's do that now.

Now I'll give my opinion on the issue dok pointed out, and because I am a hipster, I'll do it backwards:

#4: Not an issue for me here, even and good thing. A jutting out startzone is cool because it diminize armies with a lot of common squad power a bit while changing basically nothing to the rest of the map.

#3: I don't see any problem here. Of course 6 moves have to be faster to grab a glyph, because they are.. you know... faster.
Pointing out a roblem just because of one unit is not for me. It's just not how I judge a map.

#2: For the flyers thing I don't think it's a problem because the only decent flyers glyph holders are the Sentinels and Phantoms Knights. Phantoms Knights take two truns for both glyph anyway and Sentinels, who the hell cares about sentinels. And for marcu, the turn-1-grab-a-glyph strategy doesn't seem good to me here, you lose a turn and Marcu dies on 17+ and even if you grab the glyph, the lost turn is huge because the glyph deny is really easy. So no fly problem here to me.
Now into the range "problem":
I don't agree with dok. The double road hexes next to the glyphs are great to help the melee squads to deny glyph holding as they're on height.
All I see in this dok's point is the Running Hot's creator that he is (don't ever try to nominate this map as long as I am a judge dok ).

#1: Unfortunately I agree too much with dok on this to accept the map. A good single-hexed gunner between the trees is too hard to deal with, the trees help hm more than doing something else because they prevent melee from engaging him.

So I'll give a NO to induct from now on but once the sand thing is changed, I would be happy to review it in more details.

[Foudzing]

Calida received 2 NO which is too much to reach the 75% needed and therefore is removed from the process.

Looking forward a new version Superfrog.

[superfrog]

Thanks for your thoughts, gents (and in impressive detail, too). The sand is definitely a strong point on the map, although the center grass can be even stronger if you get your opponent in the right position.

I have a few edits in mind given your thoughts. I'll be back in my thread with a revised version soon.

[Kinseth]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Thanks for your thoughts, gents (and in impressive detail, too). The sand is definitely a strong point on the map, although the center grass can be even stronger if you get your opponent in the right position.

I have a few edits in mind given your thoughts. I'll be back in my thread with a revised version soon.

Looking forward to seeing the changes.

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Kinseth

Looking forward to seeing the changes.

Well my computer lost my changes, so that was a bit of a setback. We'll see how soon I can finish recreating them.

[Ninja Status]

I thought you guys might need a cool logo to go with the project:

~NS

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by Ninja Status

I thought you guys might need a cool logo to go with the project:

~NS

Awesome, just awesome. Thanks NS.

Love how the logo takes hexes as its unifying design feature, but renders them as if they were links in a chain, or stencilled lettering. Really striking.

I've put it in the OP, as our new header.


EDIT: added thanks to @Ninja Status (for our logo) and @awesomeunleashed (for our badge) in the OP as well.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Awesome, just awesome. Thanks NS.

Love how the logo takes hexes as its unifying design feature, but renders them as if they were links in a chain, or stencilled lettering. Really striking.

I've put it in the OP, as our new header.


EDIT: added thanks to @Ninja Status (for our logo) and @awesomeunleashed (for our badge) in the OP as well.

Doh, @Ninja Status made our badge as well as our logo. OP updated.

Why did I think @awesomeunleashed had made it? Because he does so many of the top-downs? Which reminds me... he needs that recognition in the OP.

EDIT: done.

I wonder if he'd be willing to make a top-down of The Borogoves (v11) as well...

[Foudzing]

Remains of Cionesia by tannergx


Overall design and aestetic:
Remains of Clionesia is one of the many maps using 1RotV and 1FotA. Personally I find many of this maps more beautiful than Remains of Clionesia, but this map is still ok in this criteria.
Just by looking at it you start to guess all the stuff you could do on this map and it give the urge to play.

Balance
It's the kind of maps I prefer: melee-friendly-but-with room-for-shooters maps.
Once the melee army is in the fortress, it's quite difficult for a ranged army but if the ranged army manage to clean the fortress, it has a free reign over the the startzone. Because it's quite difficult to re-enter in the startzone for common squads, there is only one big entry, other entries "cut" the movement a lot.
That's this "snowball" effect that I was worried of. I you lead with a good ranged hero (Q9), and you clean'up the squad figures on the fortress I thought it can be very difficult to delocate the hero.
But after a few tests I found that's it's not impossible at all, because the LoS in the fortress are limited, and a map that is good for heroes is not bad at all. Plus you have good thing for squads too: the 2 glyphs on the sides, hero-based armies will have big trouble getting them.
So overall a good melee vs range balance and a good hero vs squads balance. So a nice overall balance.
But what about the A/A+ units? Do they dominate?
Well I already talked about how Q9 can be strong on this map, the same applies for the rats, well played they're a pain to deal with on this map (like on mostly any map anyway).
And Raelin? Well I completely disagree with Kevindola here, Raelin is extremly strong on this map, she can go on the best spots in one move, and she has several very good placements possible, more or less aggresive.
In brief nothing is made to make this figures less strong. It could be a major drawback but the next paragraph saves the day.

Playability
So yes the A+ units fully deserve their rank on this map butit's not a big deal to me, we are not in 2010 anymore, "straight up one army" formats don't exist anymore. So as long as the games with these figures are fun it's good.
And god they were, because as the goal on this map is to take control of the fortress and then snowball, you just cannot camp. So if you have rats you have to go forward with them not just let them near your ranged-hero in Rae's aura. If you have Q9 you have to constantly move because of LoS blockers. And with Raelin she's huge on this map if well played, but here well played means with risks taken and with a lot of choices to do.
I found Raelin mirrors very enjoyable on this map.

Yes the "snowball" effect can be hard to suffer, but you have to adapt your strategy before you get behind, so you don't lose all the board control and your chances of winning the game on one bad defense roll.

An other good thing on the playability of this map is that in almost every game the whole map is used, every single hex have an importance in this map, this is very enjoyable.

Conclusion
Yes this map has some drawbacks, but the overall design and playability is too good to pass out.
I vote Yes to induct Remains of Clionesia in the WoS.

[rudyvalentine]

I would like to nominate The Borogoves for WoS review. Full disclosure, I'm a huge Typhon2222 fanboy and feel most of his maps are worthy of nomination, but this is a good place to start.

I had the opportunity to build and play this map at a local game day/tournament. It's not only aesthetically pleasing, it has the choices and balance to offer interesting plays with a variety of units. Love the quick access to the shadowy and jungle-boosted middle, but there are a ton of places to gain height and the sides cannot be overlooked with their extra height and some line of sight protection. It's an all-around great build and I believe it's worthy of WoS consideration.

The Borogoves (v11) Download PDF
Uses: 2 BftU, 1 TJ

Here is the link to the .hsc file for The Borogoves.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by rudyvalentine

I would like to nominate The Borogoves for WoS review. Full disclosure, I'm a huge Typhon2222 fanboy and feel most of his maps are worthy of nomination, but this is a good place to start.

I had the opportunity to build and play this map at a local game day/tournament. It's not only aesthetically pleasing, it has the choices and balance to offer interesting plays with a variety of units. Love the quick access to the shadowy and jungle-boosted middle, but there are a ton of places to gain height and the sides cannot be overlooked with their extra height and some line of sight protection. It's an all-around great build and I believe it's worthy of WoS consideration.

The Borogoves (v11) Download PDF
Uses: 2 BftU, 1 TJ

Here is the link to the .hsc file for The Borogoves.

Just to get all the links in the same post....

Top-down for online play

[Typhon2222]

@rudyvalentine , thanks hugely for nominating The Borogoves (perhaps my personal favorite). It's an honor indeed.

Looks as if I won't be reviewing this one....