Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by superfrog

I do want to say that I quite liked the idea of Masha but felt that he never really paid off. I think a boost to the retribution power or a bump back down to 90 points would be a good start towards bumping the design over the line for me.

Yeah, my impression from the reviews is that I definitely may have restrained him a bit too much (in my defense, it was looking like he wouldn't even make it to testing at the time ). I find his limits and the ensuing tension to be fun, but I see how it can lead to him feeling underwhelming at times. I'm taking him back to my thread for some revisions now!

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by superfrog

I do want to say that I quite liked the idea of Masha but felt that he never really paid off. I think a boost to the retribution power or a bump back down to 90 points would be a good start towards bumping the design over the line for me.

I'd much rather see this than either 4 defense or a third power

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by wriggz

I'd much rather see this than either 4 defense or a third power

Don't worry, neither of those are things that I'm considering.

[The Long eared bat]

I would like to submit this 2 man squad Shatterhead & Graymace.
figures used Anvil of Thunder #02 Aberrations D&D Miniature
and D&D Miniatures Unhallowed #16 - Dwarf Battlerager

[Sir Heroscape]

Nothing personal in this comment, it's just that I feel this was a rather quick turnaround from all the comments and changes that were going on in your own thread and the Pre-SoV thread for this unit. I'd question the amount of playtesting and balance attention that you gave this particular version of the design. Feel free to share more details on that front.

That aside, I'm not particularly compelled by this 2-man unique squad. Fling seems rather odd...what is supposed to be happening here? Is the dwarf figure they move next to supposed to be the one throwing one of them? I mean, dwarves are strong but I don't seem them having the strength to be throwing each other around the battlefield (3 spaces is actually quite far for throwing something, I mean Jotun only throws 4 spaces and he's a Giant with massive hands and arms) or interest in being thrown around (Gimli in The Two Towers not liking Aragorn throwing him onto the causeway, asks him not to mention it to Legolas).

[TREX]

I agree with @Sir Heroscape on the dwarf fling. Movement powers are pretty powerful. This is not as a big deal powerwise where you are throwing your own character but thematically it does fall short. Even in lord of the rings Aragorn throws gimli maybe close to two spaces, but even that is a stretch. Id personally leave throwing powers to superheroes and big guys.

[The Long eared bat]

I have playtested them and actually reduced attack by 1 to balance them. Dwarf fling is two dawarves spinning each other around and then releasing to give the dwarf a momentum charge. It is more of a charge than a throw. The dwarf has to move 3 spaces it isn't placed like Jotun's throw.

[Dad_Scaper]

I really don't like the Dwarf Fling power. I don't like it thematically and I don't think the minis suggest it, anyway.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

and I don't think the minis suggest it, anyway.

It would be tough to throw another dude when you're wielding a weapon in each hand.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

It would be tough to throw another dude when you're wielding a weapon in each hand.

Precisely.

I'm not sure that I'd endorse this theme for *any* mini, but that is the reason why I would not do so for these in particular.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by The Long eared bat

I have playtested them and actually reduced attack by 1 to balance them.

As a designer, this is a dangerous outlook...that is, believing that it's just the right side stats that determine balance. There is much more that goes into the designs balance than just the attack or defense values. Balance isn't just whether or not they kill more than their points worth, it also involved what powers they have, how they interact with each other and other units and whether or not the design should even have that power. Those altogether need to be considered when balancing a design.

Even a change like reducing the attack by 1 (as you mentioned you did) shouldn't be done lightly. Changing 1 stat can drastically change the way a unit plays and how the theme is portrayed for the design. Changes like that need to be playtested enough to understand the effect that that change has, rather than just changing it because they were killing too much so they needed to be "weaker".

EDIT: In reference to my previous comment about quick turnaround for this unit...here's what transpired over the course of the last 7 days and it's changed 2 times with VERY different abilities in that short time. Current iteration just now submitted is 3 days old. Again, I would question the time spent testing and balancing this design by the designer (nothing personal Long Ear).

Spoiler Alert!

NOVEMBER 5th post in Pre-SoV Workshop

Originally Posted by The Long eared bat

What do people think of this:
2 man squad Figures used:
Anvil of Thunder #02 Aberrations D&D Miniature

D&D Miniatures Unhallowed #16 - Dwarf Battlerager

NOVEMBER 6th post in Pre-SoV Workshop

Originally Posted by The Long eared bat

Here is a changed version of Shatterhead & Graymace

NOVEMBER 9th post in Pre-SoV Workshop

Originally Posted by The Long eared bat

After playtesting Shatterhead & Graymace I felt like they weren't worth the order marker so here is a changed version.

[robbdaman]

Hmmm... I kinda have to agree. It may make more sense to have it be more akin to Berserker Charge from the Tarn Viking Warriors.

That said part of me would almost rather these guys be unique heroes that activate when the other does akin to Werewolf Lord's Moon Frenzy perhaps.

I can see a launch of sort working for a team. One dwarf can squat down and the other run or jump on his back or shoulders and then both leap up at the same time to send one flying.