The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Kinseth]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Well yeah. He's a shark cheerleader. It's a delicate combo. Depending on dice, he might not be engaged for more than a round-ish. But if you can get 2 turns of fast cultists and 1 or 2 big Unholy Fury rolls on Nilfheim, it's probably worth it.

If he proves to be too brittle, I can go to 5L/3D, but I'd prefer not to.

I think that I would design him more to be a 50 point hero, Cultists are already 80 points, hard to justify a 70 point hero, but a 50 might slide in real nice.

[superfrog]

The other thing I can do is give him an auto-shield at the same threshold as the auto-skull.

Although 50-60 points might be a better fit for him.

Maybe 5L/2D, auto-shield and auto-skull at 2 wounds, 60 points.

[Leaf_It]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Well put Leaf_it. Those were all the things I was thinking but not sure how to say.

@superfrog I know the sword has been a focus for you to incorporate, but he might be better off if you move his attack to 5 and then remove Unholy Fury and give him Iron Resolve. That way he has a survivability power, a cheerleader power, shark-like stats and a strong and thematic attack power. Unholy Fury and Dragonkind Enmity are basically 2 offensive powers, but I believe they’ll be hard to pull off without some survivability to them. Iron Resolve would fit and make sense. All just suggestions though.

The problem with this, is that it doesn't account for ranged armies that don't rely on Special attacks. Normal attacks will still kill just as quickly. While this would make facing against Dragon armies a little better, Agrah Fenh still has less defense than the Cultists, so he'll still be the primary target for the Special attacks. Since getting the movement buff, and using his attack, requires adjacency, normal attacks will be readily available for use against him.

The current stats and abilities look like they would fit better on a ranged design. To fit better on a melee design, I would switch his attack, and Defense Stats. Higher defense would allow him to be the Front line leader that Occult Zeal wants him to be, and the lower attack would be off set with the two Attack buffs. His 4 defense would give him the staying power to consider putting order makers on him again once he gets to 3 life, because of the auto skull. His 2 attack dice + 1 automatic skull + Dragon Enmity would still be better, and more reliable, than the Cultist's 3 attack dice + Dragon Enmity, so he'll still stand out as the powerful hero in the army. This design would also make the opponent think twice about attacking him. Do they want to deal with a hero who has an auto skull attack, or get rid of the movement buff? Currently his defense is low enough that you don't really need to worry about the auto shield because he'll die so fast.

In addition to this proposed change, and even if you don't switch the attack and defense, I would like to see Fanatical Advance added to Agrah Fenh. It is strange that the Hero Figure cares more about engaging with commons than the cultists he's fighting with. This would also allow him to more easily engage the figures that matter when you do attempt to use his attack.

Edit: I had this post half written and left to do something, when I came back and finished it, I did not see the proposed Auto Sheild addition to Unholy Fury. However, I still think that with just 2 defense, he would die too easily at the front lines. If he gets targeted by a high attack, while at say 4 life, he could die before the auto shield was ever available for use. However, if the auto shield were added, I would change the stats to 2 attack, 3 defense, instead of 2 attack, 4 defense.

[superfrog]

I like your suggestions, but I don't want to mitigate his sharkiness too much. He won't be easy to get the most out of, but that's okay with me.

[Kinseth]

I think low defense is fine, it encourages your Cultists to rush forward and engage the battle with their leader. I really like the dynamic of him needing to be engaged, though I think the payoff could be better, perhaps 2 move. Other Cheerleading heroes give static 1 move without restrictions. Him having 2 also would make your opponent decide, man is it worth engaging this raging lunatic?(further helping his survival ability, without boosting his defense)

[superfrog]

Okay folks, thanks for all your input. All of you gave me good feedback. I'm going to test this version:

[Astroking112]

I really like these all of these new changes. He won't last long, but that +2 move will be a ton of fun to play around with and makes the engagement feel worthwhile (and I really like how he gets both an automatic shield and an automatic skull now, which encourages him even further to rush off to his likely death).

I do still feel like Unholy Fervor sounds off, though. It just isn't evoking a cult in the same way as the rest of the card to me and cuts a bit away from the theme. Perhaps expanding the lore of the Nhah Scirh some more could be in order, such as "Gospel of ___," "___ Blade," or even something more generic like "Willing/Empowered/Destined Martyr" to hint more at their beliefs and practices.

Other than that, I think that this design is shaping up to be a very strong addition to VC. I look forward to seeing him submitted to SoV.

[superfrog]

Good name suggestions. I'll play around with those in my mind for a few weeks.

[bmon]

I like the boost in movement bonus (+2 now). The added auto shield feels like a little much though. I know the goal is to make him a little more durable, but it feels like you are sacrificing theme for mechanics. The auto skull brings out the eagerness to attack. Auto shield is generally for things that are naturally tough. I know the Nah Scirh have it against special attacks, but that feels right. It also feels like he's slightly underpriced with it, but playtesting will handle that. Great stuff though!

[superfrog]

With or without the auto-shield, the theme is pretty much the same: he gets tougher when he's near death. I may drop the auto-shield, though, if he looks to be overpowered (and probably go back to 6 life). I'd like to keep the price 60 or lower.

[bmon]

Perhaps it's just the naming of the power that conveys the eagerness to kill. I personally like the ability name "Unholy Fervor" a lot, but can't say it really makes me think of him getting tougher.

[Kinseth]

It is what the Chalice of Fortitude should have been!