ARV Contest Thread

[Dr.Goomonkey]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Hey, glad you figured out how to do online boards! Looks good! I would recommend turning the table off (Configuration --> Preferences --> Uncheck the display table box) and then rotating the image before you upload it. Oh, and there's no need to use the level 1 tiles, even for the half-height ones. I know they're in the file I gave you, but it looks cleaner to just assume all unmarked tiles are level 1. Otherwise, everything looks great.

Thanks! Yeah, turning off the table sounds like a good idea. I also think two of the water tiles are going to trade places with a couple of the swampwater tiles, the glyph may be a bit too good for fliers as is. There's a workshop phase before any maps become official ARV maps, right?

Thanks for showing me the ropes! [plug superfrog for anybody else wanting to learn how to make online maps]

[TREX]

Yeah. All the top ten will get playtesting to determine if they are tournament worthy. Some of them will need slight tweaks to get them there. Overall a good batch of maps.

[rednax]

Hi, judges! I was curious when we could expect to hear feedback on maps, either from you or from various tournament-goers. I'm very curious how my maps fared, but of course, no rush!

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by rednax

Hi, judges! I was curious when we could expect to hear feedback on maps, either from you or from various tournament-goers. I'm very curious how my maps fared, but of course, no rush!

Our decision is to post official reviews AFTER we've all voted on a maps tournament worthiness. In the past we've given hasty reviews after just a Game or two and then later changed our minds after further playtesting, and we want our reviews publicly to mirror how we voted in private. Also keep in mind there are 10 maps and potentially more going through the workshop thread so this process usually takes the next 3 months or so...which is why we only plan on doing 2-3 contests a year due to the time it takes in between to playtest and workshop all the maps. We will create a Reviews Thread when we are ready so look out for that.

That said, there's nothing wrong with a judge to post his initial thoughts on a map prior to playtesting. So if you'd like some initial feedback (nothing final) I/we could still chime in.

[rednax]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Our decision is to post official reviews AFTER we've all voted on a maps tournament worthiness. In the past we've given hasty reviews after just a Game or two and then later changed our minds after further playtesting, and we want our reviews publicly to mirror how we voted in private. Also keep in mind there are 10 maps and potentially more going through the workshop thread so this process usually takes the next 3 months or so...which is why we only plan on doing 2-3 contests a year due to the time it takes in between to playtest and workshop all the maps. We will create a Reviews Thread when we are ready so look out for that.

That said, there's nothing wrong with a judge to post his initial thoughts on a map prior to playtesting. So if you'd like some initial feedback (nothing final) I/we could still chime in.

I completely understand that this is a time-consuming process and I greatly appreciate your taking time to do this. That being said, I would be completely fine with you offering initial feedback on my maps, publicly or privately. And if your feedback changes after later testing, then that's fine too.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by rednax

I completely understand that this is a time-consuming process and I greatly appreciate your taking time to do this. That being said, I would be completely fine with you offering initial feedback on my maps, publicly or privately. And if your feedback changes after later testing, then that's fine too.

Fair enough. My Initial feedback with your maps (understanding I've only played 1 game on Evergreens and 2 on Marshall) would be that structurally they are sound and I really enjoyed playing on both BUT my issue is the glyphs. Wannock and Initiative are not competitively balanced. That and a Wannock glyph will always pull the conflict to one side of the map if it's not in the middle. I think this draws away from your maps because they are wonderful but on Marshall Law the conflict during both my games was never really on the Initiative glyph side, and same with Evergreens. Wannock needs to be countered by a stronger glyph like Gerda, but even still, the mid -end game will pull the conflict toward Wannock. I suggest using two different glyph combinations altogether because I find games get to focused on controlling Wannock and not enough about using the beautiful map features to your advantage. If you did Dagmar&Ulinavia or Valda&Gerda or Lodin&Ulinavia/Dagmar I think we'd find the games to be not so focused on glyph control and more on using the map and grabbing a glyph on the way.

I feel this way for both maps as they both have this issue.

Also, now that I think about it. The only structural issue I see with Marshall Law is that the glyph near the tree needs to be either 1)repositioned or 2) put onto a water space instead of being same level. Here's why. If you have a figure on the glyph and another figure protecting the glyph directly in front (not on the water spaces to the side), then NO doublespaced figures can make an attack on the glyph holder until the figure in front is destroyed or moved. As well, any single-spaces figure would have to go down level into the water and be at an extreme disadvantage to attack up on the glyph holder. This in my opinion is broken due to the armies that could exploit this part of the map. I used this strategy in a game and it gave me the edge I needed And I almost felt bad because my figure was such a choke point my opponent really had a hard time with it. I still want to playtest it more to see just how one-sided it gets...but I anticipate there needing to be some adjustments there to make it ready for competitive play. i was thinking putting a weaker glyph there like Dagmar could help make that issue less of a problem, but I really do think the fact that a figure can block the glyph access from doublespaced figures and making others go lower by standing in front is just too imbalanced. Just switch out a water hex and put a weaker glyph in place of Wannock and I think you'll be golden. So those are my initial thoughts. If your maps don't make the final cut, we'll make that clear in our Review Thread and that way you can make adjustments and resubmit it if need be.

[Dad_Scaper]

I went over to the display thread to look at Rednax's maps and I noticed that the maps don't have the names of their creators, unless those names happened to be in the graphic display. When you guys get a chance, I think it would be a valuable addition to the display thread to add the names of the creators. I know it's there if I click the links, but I just wanted to scroll through and it would have been nice to see those nods to the creators.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I went over to the display thread to look at Rednax's maps and I noticed that the maps don't have the names of their creators, unless those names happened to be in the graphic display. When you guys get a chance, I think it would be a valuable addition to the display thread to add the names of the creators. I know it's there if I click the links, but I just wanted to scroll through and it would have been nice to see those nods to the creators.

You bet, thanks for mentioning that! Most of the names should be in the map image but I'll add them in either way.

[BiggaBullfrog]

@rednax , I did get to play on Everglades and Evergreens at the tourney. I lost, so your map is obviously broken.

In all seriousness, though, I only played the one game on the one map, but both of your maps look really exciting to me, and I'm looking forward to when I get to them on my play testing list. I actually agree with your glyph selection on the maps - they look really balanced by glyph power vs stronger positioning, like you mentioned. I also think sometimes people underestimate the power of initiative mid-game. There are no obvious map-breaking issues on the maps and only a couple nitpicks I've heard, but if that's all there is I don't see anything big enough against them being tournament-worthy.

For the glyph selection issue, finding that balance is really hard, especially when you're doing preset glyphs. On your maps you're able to balance them with the positioning, but on more symmetrical maps where the glyph points are equal strength, it's tough to find two that actually balance each other out. Gerda is really strong, and the common/unique attack glyphs can be really strong too depending on the army (especially Common), or completely useless depending on the army. Wannok is strong but less so than Gerda and an Attack glyph with the right army. Dagmar is very valuable but only really draws attention at the end of a round. Valda is one of my favorites because it's good for all armies (usually) but is easily contested (generally). Lodin, IMO, is next to useless unless all of your army uses D20 powers. Usually if I'm making a map with preset glyphs, I'll only use one preset glyph, unless it's a longitudinally asymmetric map like your submissions where I can balance positions.

[Dr.Goomonkey]

Here are the first 5 maps for online play, for anyone that's interested. Let me know if you see any somewhat unbrazen errors (so not the table in Thaeberian Wellsprings ).

Also, I took an executive decision and changed up Wasted Swampland a tad. Having water completely surround Kelda was a bit much.

Oop. I also noticed I didn't put the level 4 hexes on Burning Temple, but I've put on a temporary fix with text boxes...

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Dr.Goomonkey

Here are the first 5 maps for online play, for anyone that's interested. Let me know if you see any somewhat unbrazen errors (so not the table in Thaeberian Wellsprings ).

Also, I took an executive decision and changed up Wasted Swampland a tad. Having water completely surround Kelda was a bit much.

Oop. I also noticed I didn't put the level 4 hexes on Burning Temple, but I've put on a temporary fix with text boxes...

The water completely around kelda was really my only turnoff on the map. I enjoyed it otherwise.

[Dr.Goomonkey]

Originally Posted by TREX

The water completely around kelda was really my only turnoff on the map. I enjoyed it otherwise.

Yeah, I really liked it aesthetically, but it definitely caused some problems in play. I can't think of a time when a flying hero was in a game and a non-flying hero got Kelda. That's still out of only a few games with the glyph as Kelda. If the glyph is permanent there is less of a problem, but it's still definitely better to have a couple routes to it.


To chime in about rednax's maps, I really like Marshall Law for some reason... I don't think that the denial of two-space figures would be a big deal if the glyph was Dagmar or something instead of Wannok, but as Wannok that is definitely a problem.


E/E is actually my favorite of those two, the bridge-wall use is pretty cool, I can never figure out what to do with that thing. At first I was confused with the placement of the glyphs, but now I see that the road leading to Wannok is actually really good for balance and such.