What's the best method for play testing?

[A3n]

Hello all,

Play testing is obviously a major part of perfecting a custom but I'm not sure how to effectively go about it. I mean, I play with my figures & through that playing about all I am doing is determining if I like the specials. I don't seem enlighten to whether the figure is balanced, or that the points cost is right, or any other stats for that matter. But it might also have something to do with the fact that I only get to play against my 6 year old son.

Please advise the best method for really play testing a figure.

Cheers

[Cavalier]

This might help:

C3G Customs Analysis and Playtesting Guidelines
C3G Customs Playtest Feedback Sheet

[A3n]

Thanx Cav, I have read them before, they give a check list of the different play tests to try but I suppose what I really lack is the theory behind the pass / fail results they are after there. What is the logic to determine that the cost is too low or the normal attack too high, etc...

[Balantai]

Originally Posted by A3n

...or the normal attack too high, etc...

You should never encounter this. Maybe the cost is too low, but that never means the attack is too high. The attack should be based off of theme. If you want to lower someone's normal attack in an attempt to lower someone's cost, that is completely viable. But you should then retest him at the new value.

To me, playtesting is completely based off of feelings. I look for things that are broken, first and fix those. Then, if I see the same figures on the winning team, I try to consider why that is. Most people will say that Iron Man is overcosted and Captain America is undercosted. Why do they say that? Also, you will find some people will say that they are costed correctly. That only shows how much flexibility there is in costing. You're never going to find the perfect cost, but you should be able to find one that "feels" right.

[A3n]

So your saying play testing is really about costing & the finding obviously nerfed abilities? But then it is just a gut feel & opinion? Damn I was kinda hoping for more science.

Cheers

[Balantai]

Originally Posted by A3n

So your saying play testing is really about costing & the finding obviously nerfed abilities? But then it is just a gut feel & opinion? Damn I was kinda hoping for more science.

Cheers

Trust me. I agree completely! As a math major in college, I'm always looking for some sort of formula. I've spent about 20 hours trying to figure out some formula for costing based off of official figures. (Example: Raise attack from 4 to 5 = 15 points, Disengage = 20 points, etc.) Long story short, there is none. It's why some figures are A+ and others are D. If there was a universal formula that worked, they would all be C units.

[Spidey'tilIDie]

Having never playtested but reading plenty about it while searching for kernels of wisdom, the things I have figured out are: How does the Character fit its roll (i.e. Tank, ranged, etc.)? Does it take out its equivalent point value in melee armies? ranged armies? solo? with other official characters? This is to help get a feel for whether they are costed correctly. Usually the cost is their average kill rate with slight addition for potential dice rolls.

[GreyOwl]

Isn't there an article about this in the recent HS Codex?

[Hahma]

There are many factors in playtesting and costing to consider. For example, if you do a card vs. Heavy Hero test (Same or similar costed official unique hero), I like to do at least 5 tests. First thing I look for is the obvious win/loss record. However, that doesn't tell everything, because the opponent might have been able to utilize their entire arsenel in that situation (Sonlen for example can Dragon Swoop, Heal and attack with Range). If the figure you are testing has some ability that works only with other figures on his team, then he can't utilize his full potential in this test and I cut them some slack if the went 2-3 or 2-5. If the reverse is true, where they get to utilize their full abilities and the opponent can't and your figure goes 2-3 or 2-5, then I figure that they are overcosted.

Similar theories go into play when playing vs. squads, in melee armies or ranged armies.

The main thing I look for is some sort of consitancey. I expect that they should over perform at times and under perform at times, as is the nature of Heroscape. But drastic swings one way or the other or from one test to another will make me reconsider raising or lowering their cost.

A lot of it is gut feeling and experience. You have to consider what a clever opponent may try to do to cancel out an ability of your figure. For example, Grundy or Thanos can't come back to life if the rest of their teammates are dead. How easy or hard would it be for an opponent to do that? Does it take a roll of 16-20 to come back to life or a 20? These things add weight to a figures card, but how much depends on gut feelings sometimes and trying to match up with comparable official cards other times.

Also, you can playtest by yourself easily enough. You just have to play an honest game and even put more emphasis on using solid strategy as the opponent of your test figure. You want to really put him through the paces to really test him. Don't want a cupcake test, that doesn't help.

I've been playing Heroscape for 3 1/2 years, so I take a lot of the experiences that I have had and lessons learned about different abilities into playtesting. That kind of helps with gut feelings at times.

Sorry if that was too wordy as I am apt to do, but I hoped it helped some.

[Sherman Davies]

I just wanted to echo the others who said that gut feeling has something to do with it, but since you're probably looking for more concrete tips, here are mine:

- I playtest against myself, never against an opponent. This at least removes differing player skill as a factor.

- I playtest only one custom per game.

- If possible, the custom is playtested alone against an opposing army of equal points. This isn't so tough to do when you're playtesting superhero customs, as the higher costed ones can face a decently sized Vanillascape army. (This also keeps your playtest games short and quick, an important side effect.) If the custom has powers that boost friendly figures, requires allies, or has some other possible synergy with other figures you control, then I throw some figures onto the custom's team.

- I playtest my customs only against official figs, never against other customs, even my own that I'm satisfied with/confident in.

- For opposing armies I try to pick solid, competitive armies. I also try to play my customs against the kind of armies they should have a good chance against (ideal opponents) and armies that should give them trouble (counterdraft opponents).

- I stick to small, symmetrical 1-RotV maps that have a "generic" feel to them. Battlefield of Valhalla maps are obviously fine for this purpose, but there are plenty of maps on this site that aren't BoV maps but suitable for playtesting.

- I playtest each custom a minimum of five games before I consider them "playable." If a playtest game causes me to adjust powers or cost on my custom, the number of games resets to zero and I try another five games. (See why it's important that playtest games be short? )

After all that, if a sufficient number of the playtest games were close - that is, the winning force was reduced to a few figures or one or two Wound Markers - I consider my custom playable. Even then, I've tinkered with my "finished" customs a few times, but mostly for reasons of aesthetics or drastic changes in power level, not because the original card was later found to be broken.

Hope that helps.

[IAmBatman]

Great tips all around, guys! I'd add something in, but I think you've really got it all covered.
Well, maybe one thing that sometimes helps is to try your guy versus a unit that costs 10 points more and then a unit that costs 10 points less than your estimated cost. It can help you quickly get a feel for where in that range your guy best fits.
When it comes to costing, you're always asking yourself "what armies would I draft this guy in and who would I draft instead of him? Does this guy perform better or worse than that unit for the same price?" The playtesting is just an attempt to answer these questions as best you can, really.

[A3n]

Cheers guys. This will help a lot.