The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Dad_Scaper]

Isn't that mini's coloring and equipment strongly indicating frost giant, instead of really big viking? With the pale coloring, white trim, and white hair?

There are interesting elements to the design, but (1) I'm not crazy about the mini, mostly because of the absurd weapon (that pole is supposed to support the head of that axe?) and (2) if you're going to use that mini, you should work with it, and not against it.

[caps]

I'm not into Braced Defense at all.

I'm also not a fan of him as a Valiant figure. The 4th Mass already have Charos; they don't need an even heavier hitter.

[superfrog]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

Isn't that mini's coloring and equipment strongly indicating frost giant, instead of really big viking? With the pale coloring, white trim, and white hair?

There are interesting elements to the design, but (1) I'm not crazy about the mini, mostly because of the absurd weapon (that pole is supposed to support the head of that axe?) and (2) if you're going to use that mini, you should work with it, and not against it.

I don't think frost giant has to contradict really big viking. Frost giants seem to have Nordic influence, and this one specifically (check out the viking shield and helmet).

I think making him Wild to tie into the Dreadguls would be cool.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by superfrog

I don't think frost giant has to contradict really big viking. Frost giants seem to have Nordic influence, and this one specifically (check out the viking shield and helmet).

I think making him Wild to tie into the Dreadguls would be cool.

Yeah, Frost Giants come from Norse Mythology, that doesn't seem a theme break. I like the idea of tying him to the Dreadguls.

[Dad_Scaper]

I'd buy that if he wasn't Jandar.

I get that the Tarn Viking Warriors are Jandar, from Earth. But I don't think it's fair to the idea of a mythological frost giant, whether an older version of a frost giant or a modern one imported from a fantasy RPG, to implement it as a good guy.

Thematically, this mini says to me "frost giant," and the design says "giant viking warrior," and I don't see those as close enough. At least, not without a wonderful mini demanding such a forgiving treatment, and I don't think this is such a one.

[Scytale]

Heimlohr's design lacks restraint. Move 8, Attack 8, and 6/6 Life/Defense are all crazy-high stats individually; combining them all into a single unit? That's not an interesting unit, it's just one with big stats for a big price tag. Yes, those stats have some qualifications, but whether or not all you're facing is melee is up to your opponent, and getting hurt is just a thing that happens anyway. I don't really see how either power affects how the unit is played (outside of drafting).

More importantly, I don't see what the unit is designed to do. He lacks multi-attacks or a multi-target attack, so he doesn't all that well as a front-line fighter in Squadscape. He has a crazy-high attack, but without the ability to get around or through screens he can't make much use of it. His Life/Defense are awesome if you're not facing range, but 200pts is a lot to dump into a single-unit defender. He would make for a vicious dungeon crawl boss, or a solid combatant in a heroes-only fight, but he is limited outside of that.

I'll echo the voices of others that I don't really like Viking as a class. The sculpt doesn't really speak to Valiant, and I don't see the need for the synergy it provides.

[Dad_Scaper]

I echo Scytale's concerns about the design, also, though I didn't get that far in my comment about the theme.

A good custom should present something interesting or challenging in the way it's played, and should present something interesting or challenging in how to play against it. There is a *little* of that here, in that his power level goes up when half his life is gone, but that's not really going to change how you play him. Partly for the reasons Scy described, above, and partly because his high defense makes it impossible to speculate how quickly his life pool will actually *drop*.

Also, again expanding on Scy's post, he is excessively simple. He has a stat block, he wanders the board hitting things. There's very little to actually manage, and no decisions to make based on the card itself. I am, or at least I'm trying, just to explain how to take Scy's feedback and turn him into something more.

Others like the mini. Make him something interesting to play, and consider the objections you've gotten to his theme. What makes him Valiant? Jandar? Are you doing justice to the mini? Answer those questions, and make him interesting, and bring him back. I don't think he's ready for this thread yet.

Thank you for sharing, though! And tag me in your own design thread, if you want me to have a look there!

[caps]

I have no problem with a Frost Giant that follows Jandar, personally.

I'm also not necessarily opposed to a unit that is simple to play. But such a unit would need to be a strong design for other reasons to be a worthy addition to the canon.

[Astroking112]

I'm with capsocrates. I actually would guess that HeroScape Frost Giants would follow Jandar, given how he has the Dzu-Teh and the obvious coloring similarities. They may be evil in other works, but we've seen the designers reinvent plenty of tropes before. Personally, I don't see an issue with making him follow Jandar at all, especially if the bio supports that.

[Lazy Orang]

What if his Berserker Rage gave him double attack but dropped his defence when over half dead?

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I'm with capsocrates. I actually would guess that HeroScape Frost Giants would follow Jandar, given how he has the Dzu-Teh and the obvious coloring similarities. They may be evil in other works, but we've seen the designers reinvent plenty of tropes before.

I know someone who would like a word with you.

Spoiler Alert!

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I know someone who would like a word with you.

Spoiler Alert!

I completely forgot about him, to be fair. It still doesn't really bother me to see a Frost Giant with Jandar, though. If we can have an evil knight or Ronin following Utgar, then why not a good Frost Giant following Jandar?