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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment |
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#4573
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I'm looking for some feedback and impressions on Nure Onna, another Yokai that I've been testing pretty extensively as of late.
@Captain Stupendous
and I have redesigned her from her initial draft to fulfill a different niche within the Yokai army, with the dual purpose of also finally offering another 20-point filler than Marcu or Isamu+Bol.
Marcu obviously has more offensive power, mobility, and utility to absorb stuff like Wannok for your army, with Eternal Hatred (sometimes) keeping him in check. Nure Onna, by contrast, has difficulty going up terrain that's more than 2 levels tall, but provides some light utility as a defense debuff when set up well. On the right map with the right position, she can get 3 or 4 attack with -2D, which is situationally better than Marcu's 4 base attack. Her 7 move is also quite interesting when combined with Seimei's Shapeshift, since she can "lend" that extra movement to other figures in early rounds or you can place another Yokai near water to set up a potential trap. To make her more engaging, she does have the potential of supporting other figures in your army as well with Paralyzing Trap, but I've found this to be difficult in standalone armies (and the Yokai themselves are mostly melee, which makes it difficult to protect her). Generally, your other figures are better bets for turns early on, and in the endgame, the -2D can still be unreliable when you're banking on a 3L/2D figure lasting multiple turns to get value out of the penalty. She kind of fulfills a similar purpose to Marcu, but in a more restrained way that hasn't been problematic in my testing. The fact that she also feels distinct from him has been pretty important to Captain Stupendous and me, too. In a Yokai army, though, she basically becomes a Kyntela Gwyn. The Yokai really want to have as many Shapeshifting opportunities as possible thanks to their place-switching trickery, and Night of the Yokai/Divination make her Paralyzing Trap much easier to achieve. It's still a difficult choice, though, especially when you're juggling Ibaraki-doji, Masha Shingai, and something like the Kirin that also want revealed OMs each round. I've found that she really enhances the army overall while also standing out on her own. My primary concerns at this point are that fillers are generally regarded with apprehension due to the low cost often being a gimmick, along with concerns that she might still be perceived as being too similar to Marcu or worrisome for her point value. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#4574
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I like Nure Ohna. The stats are nice and weak and the left-side stats look good. Having playtested the Yokai a lot, I can see some clever uses, and she's not bad as filler for other armies.
The one thing I'm not really happy with Paralyzing Trap doesn't have a size restriction; from both gameplay and thematic perspectives it doesn't seem like it should affect the biggies. |
#4575
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Looks like a thematic clash when compared to your source material and the bio you've created for the unit.
The Paralysis Trap, which is symbolizing the hand off of the baby-like bundle I'm guessing, should only effect one thing at a time. This Yokai looks like it effects and targets one person at a time, as a large part of its lore to punish choices. Functioning as a mass debuff feels unthematic. I also agree, it shouldnt effect large/huge figures. Should it effect Soulborgs either? Doesnt quite feel right. From the deep is a good name to connect with the folklore and the imagery from the bio. I dont understand why she needs an attack boost from a thematic perspective, it feels out of place. |
#4576
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
~TAF TAF was the Storyteller... in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT |
#4577
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
In terms of gameplay, I've found that she's useful to break through high-defense targets like Q9 or dragons, especially if the player can also afford Ibaraki-doji or Masha with their higher base attacks. A more common use for her is indeed probably to make sure that the Yokai's fewer attacks per OM pay off in killing squads, though. Is there a specific reason why paralyzing the bigger figures feels off to you, or is it more of the result of many similar-themed powers like Paralyzing Stare featuring a size restriction? Quote:
There's a surprising amount of leeway in Yokai legends in any case, and since the only time that the scenario really "breaks" is when multiple adjacent figures are attacked simultaneously by something like an explosion attack, the fringe case doesn't seem to be worth driving the design to me at a first glance. Quote:
The thematic justification for an attack bonus is that the Nure Onna was typically pretty violent as a vampiric Siren parallel--this design even had Life Drain not too long ago to further emphasize that sharky playstyle, but Captain Stupendous pointed out that it made this iteration a bit too similar to Marcu and I don't disagree. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#4578
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
That. Players shouldn't have to research a unit to understand it.
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#4579
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
That's a fair assertion, albeit a difficult one for the Yokai in particular given that they don't share the benefit of familiarity from Western-based units. I'll experiment with a size restriction to make sure that it doesn't change too much; given that she's only 20 points and the Yokai can still function without her, I doubt that it will, but it's best to make sure, of course.
Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#4580
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Quote:
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#4581
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
There's nothing about Me-Burq-Sa's bio that suggests his stare wouldn't work on large and huge figures. Being immune to certain abilities is one of the benefits of being big in Heroscape.
~TAF TAF was the Storyteller... in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT |
#4582
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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That's a fair point; my view is that many of those powers to outright bypass defense were trying to avoid making certain heroes obsolete (or counterbalance against squads) whereas Nure Onna's defense debuff is best for targeting said heroes currently. But given that the theme doesn't land well without the background knowledge and she already provides good utility with her species and speed, I don't have a problem with changing it to be more similar to other HS conventions. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#4583
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Ok, before I starting working on the customs more, I wanna know if these two minis would work as Vipers? My idea is to have them be female to justify the lack of arms.
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#4584
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I like the minis but they do not say “Heroscape viper” to me at all.
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