The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Sir Dendrik]

If I was doing a Ne-Gok-Sa 2.0 I wouldn't change the sculpt at all. I have toyed with the idea of making a Kee-Mo-Shi 2.0 with the same figure.

The Ne-Gok-Sa repaint is completely black with red eyes, the result of genetic replication and splicing with Sharro DNA, another species on Marr. He has no visible hit zone and can envelope certain figures in shadow in his vicinity to give them no visible hit zones as well. He's a Marro Warlord, which is a bit of a stretch I admit, but he can envelope the Grok Riders, giving them a synergistic boost.

[Pumpkin_King]

That might be a bit far of a reach, to be blunt.

[Leaf_It]

Figures that I think have a chance of being accepted with a repaint from the RotV master set:
Airborne Elite (either a unique hero, or less likely as a other unique squad)
Izumi Samurai (either a unique hero, or less likely as a other unique squad)
Tarn Viking Warriors (As a unique hero, I don't see a squad being accepted)
Marro Warriors (either a single unique hero, or less likely as a other unique squad)
Krav Maga Agents (Probably a unique hero, a unique squad is very unlikely)

That's really it. I think all of the heros are too memorable, and iconic to be passable as a repaint.

[Sir Dendrik]

Good to know. I think I might be focusing too much on getting into the SoV and not enough on doing fun things for my own game table.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Figures that I think have a chance of being accepted with a repaint from the RotV master set:

...

Izumi Samurai (either a unique hero, or less likely as a other unique squad)

I didn't need the temptation to make another Samurai hero.

In all seriousness, though, I agree that designing for your own table first is probably the best way to go. Designing solely for SoV probably won't leave you happy with the result, but if you find a design that you really like (whether it's "approved" or not), then I think that it's worth a shot at that point.

[SinChan]

Spoiler Alert!

This is Detective Jason Scott my most recent custom I've played around a bit with for the last couple of weeks. My friends and I were having fun testing him with one another and they suggested that I submit him to the SoV. I thought I would get some opinions in here before I properly submitted him.

We played 4 games with him and decided he fit best around the 100 point mark. Shotgun Blast Special attack is a direct copy of the attack from Johnny "Shotgun" Sullivan. Information Gathering is an ability I came up with to try and translate the detective work that he would do into gameplay as best as possible. I specifically worded it to suggest that the player controlling Jason wouldn't have to share what the target's army cards said if he or she didnt choose to.

The figure used is Lt. Gordon from The Dark Knight Rises heroclix set. The figure is fairly common and runs for less than a dollar on sites like Trollandtoad and CoolStuffInc.

Thematically is where I think the main issues would lie. I liked the idea of having a detective/police figure in heroscape, but at the same time no official or other SoV or C3G figures fit into that faction. (To my knowledge.)

In any case, let me know what you guys think. Cheers!

[Arch-vile]

He doesn't look very good, in my opinion. Compare him to Johnny Shotgun Sullivan, who is a very similar figure at 65 points. Both have the shotgun special attack. Johnny has better stats (1 more move plus 5/2 defenses are better than 3/3).

Now Detective Jason Scott also has the info gathering power. However, it's kind of a worthless ability as-is. It requires you to forgo your attack for a 30% chance of something happening. And that something is average at best. Getting to view order markers can be helpful (it's matchup dependent), but you're giving up a full turn to maybe do it. Shooting with his special attack or taking a turn with a different unit entirely would probably be a much better strategy.

[Leaf_It]

I don't think he looks bad, just over priced.

Information Gathering, as Arch-vile above me has stated, isn't very good right now, but it's an interesting power, and I think it can be fixed up. The quickest way, is to change it to before attacking, so that you can still attack when you use it. If you feel that it's too potentially powerful to allow attacking every time, then add, if you roll a 5 or lower, you must end your turn immediately. You can adjust this number as you see fit. I recommend keeping it low though, since the ability will be less and less appealing the higher the number.

I'd probably price him around 50 points to start, and play test from there.

[SinChan]

I'll admit to not being the greatest when it comes to playtesting. Thinking about it now, perhaps testing him in a free for all setting with 3 armies might not have been the most conclusive way to go about it. Even then he was destroyed early in the first couple of games. Being the first figure down from his army during the second game. (A rather unfortunate incident involving a very angry sir hawthorne)

Do you suppose that it would be appropriate to give him a couple extra hp as well as the alterations to information gathering? I feel with a power like that he would frequently end up targeted by other figures and fall quickly. At least he did in our matches.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by SinChan

I'll admit to not being the greatest when it comes to playtesting. Thinking about it now, perhaps testing him in a free for all setting with 3 armies might not have been the most conclusive way to go about it. Even then he was destroyed early in the first couple of games. Being the first figure down from his army during the second game. (A rather unfortunate incident involving a very angry sir hawthorne)

Do you suppose that it would be appropriate to give him a couple extra hp as well as the alterations to information gathering? I feel with a power like that he would frequently end up targeted by other figures and fall quickly. At least he did in our matches.

I think some extra health would certainly help, or extra move to let him get into position in fewer turns. I wouldn't drop his price too low if you boost his stats, though. Johnny Shotgun Sullivan and James Murphy should be good comparison points for pricing.

To the extent of my knowledge, SoV judges mostly playtest in 1v1 games with 400-600 points on tournament maps. That's very likely the environment that he'd be tested in (I personally still like running units in less serious games at least a couple of times as well to ensure that they're still fun).

[BiggaBullfrog]

Originally Posted by SinChan

Love the detective angle! I'll echo a lot of what has been said -- points too high currently, move should probably be 5 unless you have a good reason for 4, life should probably be at least 4, if not 5 (though he does have the extra defense and the mini looks older, so 4 can work). I like the concept for Information Gathering and have wanted a power that lets you look at order markers in the game for a long time. That said, it's not super strong as-is. If you want to keep it to just looking at OMs, I'd definitely do as suggested and drop the "instead of attacking" requirement.

One suggestion if you want the power to be (significantly) stronger is to change it so that after you've looked at the order markers you can move one of your own OMs to a different card -- he got the information and your army gets to benefit from it. Just a thought, and maybe you don't want it to be that powerful. You can keep it to just looking at OMs, and that still does make him really interesting in the late game, where order marker management becomes much more important, and knowing what is on a card can be a big swing for you.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

To the extent of my knowledge, SoV judges mostly playtest in 1v1 games with 400-600 points on tournament maps. That's very likely the environment that he'd be tested in (I personally still like running units in less serious games at least a couple of times as well to ensure that they're still fun).

Not necessarily. In fact, not even the majority of the time in many cases. It depends on the unit, of course, because we're wanting to test what that unit is designed to do, and that's not necessarily double-blind tourney play. I've done a lot of dungeon crawl testing, some Heat of Battle, and a surprising amount of free-for-all's (a large part of my testing with Maltis Tez was free-for-all's; I'd recommend trying her out in one sometime). I also do a lot of draft tests (the OG of Heroscape) and always at least a couple (more if I can) casual, just for fun games with a friend to make sure that the unit is, indeed, fun. I mean, it's a game. (In fact, I see this detective being really fun in multiplayer games where you can look at OM's and tell the other player(s) what's on the card to get them to help you -- let the table politics ensue!)

I guess I can't speak specifically for the other judges, other than Scytale was sure to remind me when I joined that, while testing is largely up to me, blind-draft tournament play isn't the only format to look at. (I feel like it's over popularized, personally, where most people know about it and think it's the main deal even though in their personal games it's not their main thing to turn to (and I see this in customs and maps).) I do feel like I've seen most of them post about testing different kinds of ways to play.

[Pumpkin_King]

Were it just me, I’d say shotgun blast is overdone, but that’s just me.