Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion - Page 669

Dad_Scaper · #**8017** August 31st, 2023, 05:39 PM

The issue I’m seeing is that the *item* is delivering the protection but the *hero* is giving wounds to trigger it. That doesn’t sound like a protective totem to me. That sounds like a sacrifice of some kind, using her body to protect her allies. My issue on this point is the connection of the theme - magical totem - to the mechanic: *she* soaks wounds for her teammates.

Shadowking · #**8018** August 31st, 2023, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

The issue I’m seeing is that the *item* is delivering the protection but the *hero* is giving wounds to trigger it. That doesn’t sound like a protective totem to me. That sounds like a sacrifice of some kind, using her body to protect her allies. My issue on this point is the connection of the theme - magical totem - to the mechanic: *she* soaks wounds for her teammates.

Ah, I see - yeah I'd been thinking of it as like the magical item creating a sort of aura that allowed its wielder to take damage for their allies; the damage is not magically being removed, but the item allows her to take that damage herself. So yeah, while I was considering that a form of protection (which it is to some degree), perhaps a "protective totem" or a "guardian totem" is a touch misleading as terminology/the name I chose was getting a little confusing, perhaps I might be looking at something more along the lines of "Antlers of Sacrifice" to properly get the theme across? She *is* protecting her clan, but at a cost to herself.

Dad_Scaper · #**8019** August 31st, 2023, 06:52 PM

It is a problem you can fix with the name. Even “Totem of the Martyr.”

wriggz · #**8020** September 1st, 2023, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

The issue I’m seeing is that the *item* is delivering the protection but the *hero* is giving wounds to trigger it. That doesn’t sound like a protective totem to me. That sounds like a sacrifice of some kind, using her body to protect her allies. My issue on this point is the connection of the theme - magical totem - to the mechanic: *she* soaks wounds for her teammates.

Ah, I see - yeah I'd been thinking of it as like the magical item creating a sort of aura that allowed its wielder to take damage for their allies; the damage is not magically being removed, but the item allows her to take that damage herself. So yeah, while I was considering that a form of protection (which it is to some degree), perhaps a "protective totem" or a "guardian totem" is a touch misleading as terminology/the name I chose was getting a little confusing, perhaps I might be looking at something more along the lines of "Antlers of Sacrifice" to properly get the theme across? She *is* protecting her clan, but at a cost to herself.

If you are thinking of resubmitting (and I hope you do). A trip through the help with wordz thread would likely help with bot concerns raised.

wriggz · #**8021** September 1st, 2023, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryguy266

[

"Check it out, I made this cool EMP gun."
"Awesome, there's one lone Soulborg wrecking us out there right now. Let's shut this thing down!"
"Oh, actually, bad news about that..."

.

I keep coming back to this comment and despite it not being a simulation this is a step to weird for me.

Vote no to review.

Vydar_XLIII · #**8022** September 1st, 2023, 01:29 PM

Kafnirra failing UFR: Kafnirra is close. I think its important to know that the issue with Honor of Clans was NOT the intent of the power (like I was worried it might be) but the execution. A power that prevents Kafnirra from synergizing with Knights but allows her to work with MacDirks and Dreadguls is can be great, but this version of Honor of Clans isn't it. I think both dok and Chris Perkins had good ideas to make it a better power.

Personally, I'm less bothered by the "totem" discussion, but I think Dad_Scaper has some good advice that might sway the rest of the detractors.

----------

Nordlung resubmission: Hoarfrost is an awesome name and gives the breath weapon very distinct visual that isn't the visual that I get from Nilfheim. Which I like.

Shockgun is pretty cool too. I get the feeling that it is the nickname for the weapon. Like Omegacron gave him the "Electromagnetic Shotgun MK7" and Nordlung responded, "Its a shotgun that shocks? I'm calling it a Shockgun." Whether that's intended or not, it feels fun and campy and I love it.

Mechanically, the only thing that's changed since the previous version is the ranged SA (and the points, but only minimally). I get the intention of doing a weaker, secondary splash with a d20. That part makes sense. But I gotta agree with ryguy266 here, the "shock" really should affect the primary target too.

Just to give a quick example, if I'm playing Zelda (specifically Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom) and I shoot a Shock Arrow into a group of enemies, one guy is taking the arrow damage and everyone is taking the electric damage, the primary target isn't somehow immune to the lightning effect. I can't think of a reason why the "physics" would work differently here. Especially because the shock effect isn't contingent on hitting the primary target, just attacking it. Nordlung could miss, but the shock splash damage still hits. That implies that the electricity is an aura or AOE around the projectile rather than an impact and then explode type of effect.

I think the SA needs to be cleaned up thematically a bit.

to review.

On a separate note (two separate notes actually), 1) I like the idea of Repulsor synergies with this SA. And 2) I want to acknowledge a mistake I made in my previous review for Nordlung. Zetacron's Range is 8. So my comment on reducing Nordlung's omnicron weapon's range to 7 to match the rest, was wrong.

caps · #**8023** September 1st, 2023, 04:33 PM

I want to chime in in defense of the Shockgun SA. It has a chance to inflict a wound on the target and on adjacent figures. The primary target has a higher chance to take more wounds (in most situations) than the adjacent figures, but they're all impacted. I appreciate the simplicity of the approach.

Blue Trails · #**8024** September 3rd, 2023, 11:14 PM

Hey, I just wanted to break into this thread to give you folks an update on the Annunhounds' sculpt availability, as I realize that I never actually followed through on that point when I mentioned it a few months ago.

Paizo apparently orders Deep Cuts Hell Hounds from their suppliers as needed, which seems to suggest that the figures are still in production. Moreover, I've recently noticed that more Hell Hounds have been bubbling up since I submitted the Annunhounds: eBay's stock has increased by at least 5 squads across all sellers, and a quick search for new retailers has revealed 14 new listings, which I'll include within spoiler tags for readability. Granted, these sources still exist in the same "wide and sparse" distribution that previously hampered the miniatures' original availability, but, when combined with the tally in my submission post, they're enough to push the Annunhounds to a total of 94 squads before counting Paizo's supply.

There's also a zanier extension that I thought could be worth mentioning. WizKids also makes an unpainted D&D Miniatures product called "Mastiff and Shadow Mastiff." The latter is a medum-sized, menacing, spectral hound sculpted from clear plastic; it's wispier than a Pathfinder Hell Hound, and I don't know how well it matches the Hell Hound in size, but it could make a fine alternate sculpt or "official" proxy if we stretch the precedent set for C3V's Rackham squads. I've found enough sets to add an additional 25 squads of Annunhounds to our tables, which would bring the minimum total to a respectable 119 if this idea is feasible.

Deep Cuts Hell Hounds - New Stock

Spoiler Alert!

Mastiff and Shadow Mastiff - Stock

Spoiler Alert!

Sherman Davies · #**8025** September 5th, 2023, 06:54 PM

Like I said earlier, I'm not opposed to the idea of the Shockgun's target figure being subject to the d20 roll, I just avoided it to have a less wordy power and larger type that was easier to read. That said, if it's a sticking point I'm fine with revising my submission with a new version:

I think I managed to word the effect while only adding one extra line of text to the power and not making the type any smaller than it was before, although the space between the powers is a little tighter than I usually make it on my cards.

Scytale · #**8026** September 6th, 2023, 11:03 AM

I don't really understand the intent of the reworded power. Is it that the shock only occurs if the target of the attack is a non-Jandar Soulborg?

This is also a significant increase to the power against single targets. It's a chance of auto-wounding despite the target's defenses. A real DW killer. Have you tested this version?

wriggz · #**8027** September 6th, 2023, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale

I don't really understand the intent of the reworded power. Is it that the shock only occurs if the target of the attack is a non-Jandar Soulborg?

This is also a significant increase to the power against single targets. It's a chance of auto-wounding despite the target's defenses. A real DW killer. Have you tested this version?

I'm clearly back tracking here but I wonder if the original power was better by accident, even if it seems odd that the target figure is not impacted, it has the secondary effect of not punishing the deathborgs. It seems to be a gladitron and rat zapper at that point.

Sherman Davies · #**8028** September 6th, 2023, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale

I don't really understand the intent of the reworded power. Is it that the shock only occurs if the target of the attack is a non-Jandar Soulborg?

The intent of the wording is that the d20 is rolled against the target figure (if it's a Soulborg) and any adjacent figure (if they are Soulborgs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scytale

Have you tested this version?

No, it was just an idea in response to wriggz and Vydar's feedback. My testing of the original version didn't show Nordlung to be dominant even when facing Soulborg-heavy armies (chas thought he actually felt a little underwhelming in that matchup at 160 points), so I figured a tweak this minor could be covered by a 5-point increase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wriggz

I'm clearly back tracking here but I wonder if the original power was better by accident, even if it seems odd that the target figure is not impacted, it has the secondary effect of not punishing the deathborgs. It seems to be a gladitron and rat zapper at that point.

I feel like there's some miscommunication going on here. In the original version, the target figure was impacted - it suffered a 4-dice attack. The adjacent figures were also impacted by potential damage, just in the form of a d20 roll instead of attack dice. Both versions are capable of punishing Deathwalkers, rats, etc...