Question Dump: Post Your Questions Here.

[superfrog]

Keep in mind that in 2007, Heroscape was only a few years old, and standardized maps for competitive Heroscape were practically nonexistent. The BoV was started in October of '06, and was still getting its footing. Many of the maps that were used in the early years of GenCon don't have building instructions available anymore. I'd look at 2009 and on as an idea of what GenCon maps are usually like.

And as far as overall quality of GC maps, I'd describe them two ways: solid and efficient. They may not be the best best best maps always, but they're good. They're also almost always familiar maps, which is a bonus. People know what they're getting into when they come to the tournaments. But since GC has limited terrain available, they're also efficient. You're not going to see a 2 SoTM map, and there are lots of 1 RoTV + 1 expansion maps used.

[itsbuzzi]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Keep in mind that in 2007, Heroscape was only a few years old, and standardized maps for competitive Heroscape were practically nonexistent. The BoV was started in October of '06, and was still getting its footing. Many of the maps that were used in the early years of GenCon don't have building instructions available anymore. I'd look at 2009 and on as an idea of what GenCon maps are usually like.

And as far as overall quality of GC maps, I'd describe them two ways: solid and efficient. They may not be the best best best maps always, but they're good. They're also almost always familiar maps, which is a bonus. People know what they're getting into when they come to the tournaments. But since GC has limited terrain available, they're also efficient. You're not going to see a 2 SoTM map, and there are lots of 1 RoTV + 1 expansion maps used.

In bold is what I expected. I had also assumed that these maps weren't really good because of the terrain they use, they are all mainly 1 RoTV but are not mentioned amoung the other RoTV maps (such as Common Ground, Dry Season, Turret Rocks). Because of this I did not think they were good.

I did look into the other maps from the list of BoV and determined that I would not include maps that the general consensus is that they suck. These maps include:
-Broken Skyline
-Ember Canyon Road
-Marr Highway
-Ruins of Pine Tree Marsh

As for other maps that are not good I only went to 1 tourney another this weekend so I have little to no experience with maps. But these I listed I will stay away from.

[ollie]

"Suck" is overly harsh, to say the least. There's a good case that they're no longer "best of the best" but I've had good games on all of them. Perhaps the common trait is that for each there's an army type that does disproportionately well compared to some unstated consensus of what the metagame is (or should be). As long as the map pool is announced in advance, I'd have no problem with any of those on a tournament list (and maps that stretch different armies in different ways is a positive trait, IMO).

[itsbuzzi]

Originally Posted by ollie

"Suck" is overly harsh, to say the least. There's a good case that they're no longer "best of the best" but I've had good games on all of them. Perhaps the common trait is that for each there's an army type that does disproportionately well compared to some unstated consensus of what the metagame is (or should be). As long as the map pool is announced in advance, I'd have no problem with any of those on a tournament list (and maps that stretch different armies in different ways is a positive trait, IMO).

It was just an opinion from what I've seen other say about said maps. I'm sure at the start many were good maps then other figures came out and they became not-so-good. different play styles probably happened and different rules came about.

The main thing I'm trying to avoid is including a map that has been seen as a map no one wants to play on. For instance I use Arctic Divide and Hot Heights at my last tourney. Some people say these maps are terrible, but it seemed fine there. I personally don't know what's wrong with the map and was looking to see if I could get guidance. It seemed once I got range on top of Arctic Divide I won the game. So maybe that one isn't a fair map, I personally have no clue.

I guess I'm just looking for a non-biased report on the maps, what ones work what ones don't. As for me I only put them all in one excel sheet and never played on them I don't know which are good which are bad and which have major design flaws. For now I'm fine using whatever but was looking for some sort of guidance on what to use. This non-biased report on maps probably doesn't exist so I guess I'll stick to using whatever I can get my hands on.

[superfrog]

Just use some that look good to you, and if your group doesn't like them, move on to new ones.

Nobody will turn around and leave a tournament because they don't like one of the maps.

Experiment and learn as you go, it'll be great

[itsbuzzi]

Originally Posted by superfrog

Just use some that look good to you, and if your group doesn't like them, move on to new ones.

Nobody will turn around and leave a tournament because they don't like one of the maps.

Experiment and learn as you go, it'll be great

Yeah that's what I'll do. I will, however, avoid those 2007 GC maps. There has to be a reason they were never used again. Anything that'll help me out. Thanks so much!

[ollie]

To back up Superfrog's point a bit more, this map was used at a tournament in the north-east with no complaints.

You have plenty of leeway on this score.

[Dad_Scaper]

Well, some "opinions" are better informed than others, and some are supported by greater consensus. Ember Canyon Road is not, in my opinion, well-suited for tournament play, despite its presence in the BoV. And by "in my opinion," I don't mean I don't like the map. What I mean is, it's not suitable for tournament play.

[itsbuzzi]

Originally Posted by ollie

To back up Superfrog's point a bit more, this map was used at a tournament in the north-east with no complaints.

You have plenty of leeway on this score.

That's a cool map! I thought I went through all the NE events and took all the maps I somehow must have missed that one. I like it, but based off of how I pick maps to use, based off my collection, I'm not sure when I would have the pieces to make this along with other maps because it takes some of all the "special" pieces that I would use for other maps but it looks like a fun one!

[Dad_Scaper]

I think you're right to take care in selecting maps, by the way. SF says nobody will leave because of a map, and that's true. But it's also true that one or two games that are made bad because of the map might contribute to a person not returning.

I like the maps I've used in my events. They may or may not speak to you, but feel free to go to the Events thread and just look for my tournaments. If you have questions about a particular one, just shoot me a PM. There are a zillion good maps in the Downloads section, but they aren't all good, and I applaud the care with which you're selecting the ones for you.

[itsbuzzi]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I think you're right to take care in selecting maps, by the way. SF says nobody will leave because of a map, and that's true. But it's also true that one or two games that are made bad because of the map might contribute to a person not returning.

I like the maps I've used in my events. They may or may not speak to you, but feel free to go to the Events thread and just look for my tournaments. If you have questions about a particular one, just shoot me a PM. There are a zillion good maps in the Downloads section, but they aren't all good, and I applaud the care with which you're selecting the ones for you.

Yeah how I'm doing it is using one at a time and I have sections using my collection to see how many new maps I can make. My last time I used Arctic Divide and I was using Unique Range and my opponent was using Mass 4th mass. I ended up winning the high ground and picked off the rest of his army with ease. This map is now on my watch list. Might not use again but we will see. I can't recall anything else like that but still that was one experience, but still will watch it. I'll check out your maps to see what's good and what's not. I have tons on my list but adding to it is never a bad thing. Thanks!

[Dad_Scaper]

I think it's fair to say that most maps will create some kind of imbalance one way or another. It might be very slight, or apply only in narrow circumstances ("Boy, the Death Chasers really benefited from Orc Battle Rush on this map!" or "This map is terrible for the Marro Hive!") but the main thing is to have a balanced *pool* of good maps at your event.

I can't speak to Arctic Divide; I don't have much experience on it, if any.