Workshop Thread

[Sir Heroscape]

Looking good Leaf_it, I vote to review A Couple Puddles

I'm still undecided about The Tree of Might...I've got reasons for still turning it down and taking it as is, I'd like to hear from the other judges though before weighing in.

[TREX]

I second your for a couple puddles. Slightly favors flyers for glyph control on sides but a 4 move melee figure has a chance to attack by end of round 1.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I can A Couple Puddles as well. Ranged armies are going to be really really happy if they can secure a hill with a good glyph, but I'm willing to test it out and see how feasible that actually is.

For Tree of Might, my main issues with it currently are the glyphs. Defense +1 is a lot more powerful and better for more armies than Unique Attack +1, so it's going to draw the attention. It also takes 5-move figures 3 turns to take the glyph to the army's right, meaning they'll be at a disadvantage to other armies if the glyphs are left as-is, or if they're going against armies with 6-move figures. The jungle pieces are also covering a lot of the highest ground on the map, protecting range more and melee less. I think if those pieces were moved more towards the center and the sides were built up a little then it would be a bit more interesting. There is also a lot of flat ground right around the start zone. Not a terrible issue, but I do think those pieces could be put to better use (like putting some height on the sides that's not covered by jungle. Overall I still like the feel you're going for with this map, I just don't think it's quite there yet.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog

For Tree of Might, my main issues with it currently are the glyphs. Defense +1 is a lot more powerful and better for more armies than Unique Attack +1, so it's going to draw the attention. It also takes 5-move figures 3 turns to take the glyph to the army's right, meaning they'll be at a disadvantage to other armies if the glyphs are left as-is, or if they're going against armies with 6-move figures. The jungle pieces are also covering a lot of the highest ground on the map, protecting range more and melee less. I think if those pieces were moved more towards the center and the sides were built up a little then it would be a bit more interesting. There is also a lot of flat ground right around the start zone. Not a terrible issue, but I do think those pieces could be put to better use (like putting some height on the sides that's not covered by jungle. Overall I still like the feel you're going for with this map, I just don't think it's quite there yet.

Sometimes Bigga just has a way with words...and he explained some of what I was concerned about. I will echo his thoughts regarding Tree of Might and for me still vote , though I anticipate that we'll see a really good, polished version soon! I agree the flat ground just outside the startzone could be put to better use. It may make movement faster across the map, but it's somewhat uninteresting strategically and aesthetically (other than the fact I can move near the center without obstacle). Overall, when designing a map, try to consider the best ways to make a melee army more versatile. Because ranged armies already have an advantage in that they can shoot you on your way in, and so melee armies need some help either with speed or cover (or both) and Bigga was right that if ranged take the height with Jungle, then even an opponents ranged army will have a hard time shooting back.

[Sir Heroscape]

A Couple Puddles by Leaf_it has received a majority vote and will be Reviewed for tournament worthiness.

[Sir Heroscape]

@BiggaBullfrog ... did you give a or for reviewing Tree of Might?

[BiggaBullfrog]

Apologies, it was a

[Sir Heroscape]

Okay...sorry for not clearing that up sooner @vvildeyedjoker but Tree of Might will not be reviewed just yet. If you wanna continue to make adjustments we're here to help all we can.

[Sir Heroscape]

Chaos by @superfrog

After playtesting it was evident that ranged armies are at an advantage here. Even with the high lava, ranged armies can still hold off melee armies fairly well from that height. The issue here on this map though is mainly with all the Central LOS blockers. They are movement obstructions and really cause problems for developing armies. Playing on this map becomes divided left to right because of the obstructions down the middle, and creates a really difficult time for melee armies to move laterally to contest ranged on height. Melee armies have to scurt around from side to side while the ranged figures can shoot at them with little movement during the round. This happened while playtesting and proved very difficult for melee. If the rock outcrops were moved out from the hive to allow central movement between sides, then it would open up the map a lot more and help armies develop through the entirety of the map and not just one side. I think the central molten lava also needs to be repositioned as they obstruct melee armies from engaging the heighted positions. Again, this was very evident during playtesting and in my opinion adjustments will need to be made for greater map balance. Also a concern for this map is that a 6 move Dragon (Nilfheim/Zelrig/Braxas) or flying figure can reach the highest point turn one, and with a ranged attack have a very strong advantage over the opponents developing army.

For me this is a

[vvildeyedjoker]

That's ok I would still like to workshop my map, however, we are about three weeks out from our second daughter being born so free time is short and getting shorter. I do appreciate the feedback and feel like I'm learning. Here's to hoping a newborn doesn't sap it all out of me.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Originally Posted by vvildeyedjoker

That's ok I would still like to workshop my map, however, we are about three weeks out from our second daughter being born so free time is short and getting shorter. I do appreciate the feedback and feel like I'm learning. Here's to hoping a newborn doesn't sap it all out of me.

Hey congrats on the soon-to-come child! No worries about trying to speed your map back in - newborns definitely are priority. We'll just wait excitedly until your map pops back up.

[Sir Heroscape]

A Couple Puddles by @Leaf_It

I'm on a map playtesting frenzy!!

I vote to induct this map as an ARV Sanctioned tournament map. Here's why:
1 - The entire map gets used. This is a big plus for me when a map can get both armies running around the whole thing, fighting back and forth for position and having a fun time while doing it.
2 - Glyph use. I LOVE Dagmar in this map. To be honest, there have been few maps I've been excited about Dagmar on, but this is one of them. With the tight, close quarters there is always bloodshed and positioning is key, so Initiative becomes quite valuable. Because it's at such an easily contestable and accessible position it's both worth the risk to grab as well as worth the risk to jump down and contest. Really became a key factor in some games as you grab the Initiative end round so next round you can run up the hill and engage troops, or further fortify your position. I'm OKAY with the random power Glyphs on height. I'll admit, I'm not crazy about the potential for a ranged pod to take height and have a power glyph in their back pocket, but it is random, so sometimes it's not worth it. Also, you've got to take the risk and activations to get there and sometimes that's not easy on a map with almost perfect equidistance from the highest point.
3 - Height. There are few maps that get as high as this one does and remain balanced, but I felt it did! The elevation changes are gradual enough that it's not terribl y difficult to move right up and either to gain position or to contest your opponent. Initially my concern was great because of the height domination factor, but melee armies perform quite well on this map as they can develop just as quickly as any ranged pod and get to height at about the same time (depending on who went first). The road is also well placed to assist quick development of melee troops and I didn't feel that they were at a terrible disadvantage.
4 - Size. This is a fun and exciting map because it's a little bit smaller than your typical tournament map, and so the conflict is raging even within the first round. My concern with its size was that a 6move dragon can reach the highest point turn 1 and blast the Startzone or an army on their way up. This is a concern but doesn't prove (yet) to be a game breaking one. Extending the dragon that far out alienates your protective wall of Greenscales (assuming your bonding with them) and can leave the dragon pretty vulnerable unless it manages to max out on its attacks. And like I said, the map is small enough that a melee army can run up the side Fairly well and the road speeds em up even more to fight back quickly.

So overall, while I still have a couple concerns, they haven't proved to be fatal, and I enjoyed the games on this map enough that the balance was strong and no game-breaking features seemed to present themselves.