The Pre-SoV Workshop

[quozl]

Looks much better!

[Astroking112]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by quozl

What do you think of undead?

Undead doesn't really hit the thematic beats for me. Masha is more alive than the various skeletons and zombies, and I'm reluctant to choose that species anyway when it has more potential for broad synergy.

Originally Posted by Scytale

Why does Feylund have to be small? Why can't it be big enough to have different languages? And even if not, why does every name have to be English-y? "Doggin" isn't even a thing, and is "Fiantooth" English-y?

You could come up with any name you wanted and it would be fine for Feylund. Or Arctorus.

Personally, I think Yokai would be good.

I have no problem with Feylund having new species names (especially for creatures that are mostly unique to HeroScape), but it stands out when compared to stuff like Gurei-Oni and Sudema. It feels a bit like calling a big Vydar SoulBorg hero something other than "Major ___," albeit to a lesser degree. It's not inherently wrong, but it stands out a little more.

You make a solid argument, though, and at this point, I honestly believe that I'm the only one who's bothered by that.

Originally Posted by quozl

Also, if Mind Flayer fits, Half Demon will too.

Originally Posted by superfrog

I love the X-2 Card Creator, but it is not fantastic at how it handles the left box.

HALF-DEMON is the same length as WARFORGED and ELEMENTARS and MIND FLAYER. It's shorter than DRAGONBORN and DRAGONSPAWN and LYCANTHROPE and SERPENTFOLK.

So if your only concern there is length, don't worry about it. I'd go with Half-Demon.

Hmm. Thanks for the insight. Things like Dragonborn and Dragonspawn have bothered me a lot in the past, but Warforged/Elementars/Mind Flayer are more acceptable. Half-Demon also works with the written bio and checks off most of the same boxes for theme, so it wouldn't be bad.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Devil doesn't feel wrong to me, but I'd be inclined to save that for the D&D Devils, who are a distinct thing from Demons.

That's a fair point; I could totally see Devils coming in from D&D at some point (if I remember correctly, there was even a faction of them in a customs thread out there).

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Half-Demon sounds like splitting hairs and feels like you're going out of your way to avoid synergy, as does Daemon - with the second, people are either not going to notice the difference or, like me, will immediately equate it with another setting where the word is used more commonly with that spelling, such as Warhammer 40k or His Dark Materials.

To be fair, I am splitting hairs and trying to go out of my way to avoid synergy.

I'm not familiar with Warhammer 40k or the usage of daemon there, but I am sympathetic to the concern of confusing daemon with demon.

Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog

Scytale's right that you could really just make up something if you're going Feylund. It wouldn't be hard to make a Feylundy demon by riffing off of some specific type of demon or some such. Could even be the start of a new species that future additions could expand on.

I do like the idea of creating a unique species for potential future additions. It's unlikely that more Samurai sculpts will be made, but Yokai is vague enough that it could eventually be developed further if the opportunity arises. One of the things that I like about Masha is how he crosses factions, so leaving that door open is actually very tempting.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on a species for Masha. There's a lot of good stuff there, and I think that I've finally got something that I can live with. I'll get another submission ready sometime tonight.

Also, I'm really liking the changes to Clayton. I was never fond of how clunky the powers were before, so if this version maintains a unique playstyle, then that'd be fantastic.

[Scytale]

Oh yeah, that version of Clayton looks sharp. I hope it works out as intended in playtesting.

[NecroBlade]

FWIW, I actually liked the aura better at 3 spaces. For some unknown reason most auras in Heroscape seem to gravitate toward even numbers, but here a slightly smaller aura helps sell the theme of a closely coordinated Shootout, IMO.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

FWIW, I actually liked the aura better at 3 spaces. For some unknown reason most auras in Heroscape seem to gravitate toward even numbers, but here a slightly smaller aura helps sell the theme of a closely coordinated Shootout, IMO.

I didn't notice the change, and I also liked the tighter restriction. I think opening that up more will also work to weaken the theme of Posse a bit, as the range restriction on Shootout will be what keeps the Posse together. I'm curious as to what prompted this change.

[quozl]

Both dok and I suggested it. Thematically, in both real life and movies, they spread out. Bunching them all together seems like a parody to me.

[Dad_Scaper]

I know there's a team of people working on Clayton, and I imagine the members of that team were quite frustrated at the outcome of our most recent vote.

I didn't have strong feelings one way or the other about the last design. It was fine, I guess. I was sympathetic with the criticism that it suffered from needless complexity, and it had the potential to be more awesome than it was.

I really like the version I'm seeing here. I think the extra layer of refinement and polish has led to a design that shines. Here is something that looks different, thematic, and fun, but is also restrained and clear in the execution of the theme. Good job.

[Sir Heroscape]

Been mulling it over a fair bit these last couple days on this design and landed on what you see here. From my last version there are only 4 subtle changes:

1) Dropped Normal attack to 4. This was to make the SA more appealing and to lean the player into taking attacks primarily with the SA in order to deal damage, but also at the risk of wounding self

2) Increase points by 5. This may go up or down in testing (probably up if anything),but based off of feedback, I gave him a price bump

3) Rather than the 'may' in the SA ability I changed it to 'must' in order to be more thematic as well as to create tension with the players positioning of their other units and/or the potential to engage too many foes and run the higher risk of failing and taking a wound as well as being surrounded.

4) Changed the title of the SA. I like both Bloodthirsty...but I felt like the ravenous 'frenzy' of attacks would come upon destroying figures...so I changed the title to a more frenzied, ravenous theme.

Due to the subtle changes, there aren't drastic gameplay changes that will occur because of it and so I plan to resubmit after some more testing to "sure up" my position and how I feel about it. I think this "tune up" is for the better (based off of feedback received) and am still interested in hearing any thoughts.

[quozl]

The normal attack will never be used.

[Scytale]

I also think that lowering the normal attack decreases the decision-making. Having the normal attack being at least as strong as the special was, before, pretty much the only thing that made it seem like a choice to me. Now, I'd probably just suffer the wound against even a single hero if didn't have height.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by quozl

The normal attack will never be used.

Originally Posted by Scytale

I also think that lowering the normal attack decreases the decision-making. Having the normal attack being at least as strong as the special was, before, pretty much the only thing that made it seem like a choice to me. Now, I'd probably just suffer the wound against even a single hero if didn't have height.

That’s exactly the point. I realized he gets too consistent and too good NOT using his normal if his normal attack is 5. Then he can just be a normal Bruiser without having to risk wounds. I decided it was more thematic to have the demon always in a reckless, ravenous frenzy...always putting himself at risk. The player can get a solid attack of 4 but that’s not going to do much for the investment of points. The Demon is most effective as an uncontrollable ravenous beast and I want that to show as a constant theme rather than a player having similar productivity without ever using the SA.

I don’t think every unit designed has to create tough decision making. As it is, A-N DOES creat that through how you position him for the SA and just how many enemies you want to engage should he rampage. I just decided that I do t want the decision making to reside between the SA or the Normal attack as much.

[brak88]

Should "up to" 3 other lawmen you control also be on the shootout power on Clayton's card as well? Could be read as not being able to use the power if you only have two other lawmen, unless that's intended.