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Official Rules & FAQ's Compilation and discussion of official HeroScape Rules and Frequently Asked Questions. **Special attacks never receive any bonuses.** |
View Poll Results: How do you interpret the word "random" in these situations | |||
Players MUST always roll a dice or shuffle the order markers and without either player looking | 7 | 13.21% | |
Owner MUST shuffle/rearrange OMs but can look before the player chooses which he/she removes | 0 | 0% | |
Owner CAN shuffle/rearrange OMs and can look before the player chooses, but is not required | 11 | 20.75% | |
Owner CAN rearrange OMs but MUST do while looking before the player chooses, but is not required | 1 | 1.89% | |
Owner CANNOT shuffle/rearrange OMs before the player chooses. OMs must be placed strategically | 23 | 43.40% | |
Depends on who you play with and mood players are in, but can be decided differently each game | 11 | 20.75% | |
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll |
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#49
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
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I suppose if there were money or prizes on the line (say a tournament) I personally would absolutely want to follow option #1. Of course, even if I were a TD I would never force everyone to follow that rule if all parties involved in a specific game didn't care about whatever method they were already using. However if a fuss were to come up about it, I'd tell players to chuck the D20 to determine which OM is removed. Iron fist meme goes here. |
#50
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
I've always played those sorts of powers by Option #5, and the only times that I've seen them at tournaments that's what I expected. That said, if I was using the unit and the other player didn't know (or forgot) that there was an OM removal power in play, then I'd have absolutely no problem with them shuffling/moving their OMs on the same cards to be placed more randomly. I also have no problem with shifting my own figures a bit so that opponents can go where they want to without denial, though, which I know was a contentious topic.
If I was playing anywhere else instead of hosting, then I'd play the power however the host wanted. Option #6 is probably the best answer in that regard, but I generally talk through powers/cards that the other players have never seen before the game anyway and make sure they know what each card can do and what will happen if it succeeds, so I've never seen anyone have an issue with Option #5 at my house before. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#51
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
1-4 are all adding mechanics to the game that are not on the card or in the rulebook. Falls under “do what the card says, not what it doesn’t say.” Problem, of course, is it says to do something that is impossible without additional mechanics.
This leads me to believe #5 is correct and the card has poor word choice (“random” should be “without looking”). C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.
DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards. |
#52
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
Don't have anything new to the debate here, just wanted to share that as a somewhat direct result of this thread, I played Mindflayer at Scapecon 2022. In my reverse match against
@Sir Heroscape
, playing all MacDirks, I lined up all of my order markers on the MacDirk Warriors in reverse order X 3 2 1, instead of the more subconscious 1 2 3 X. Sir H won initiative, psionic blasted a low defense MacDirk, and then stole my OMX trying to steal my 1. The Macdirks then mobbed the Mindflayer and killed him, knocking off an OM on the reverse side.
Basically my point is whatever the end ruling is, it's relevant, especially in Main Event style games where Mindflayer and Spiders are viable. 10 Years of Gencon/Scapecon Battle Reports - Comic Battle Reports - Probability Calculator App - Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes "It's all about the game." - Sgt. Ernie Calhoun |
#53
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
Sounds like you did #5.
C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.
DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards. |
#54
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
Yes, I agree with #5. the placing of OM's is part of before rolling for initiative and is strategic and shouldn't be "messed with" because the position of those OM's changes also as you take turns. i.e. if I see he's taken OM1 and OM2 right next to each other, I might assume OM3 is in order.
Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#55
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
I still think that if you're trying to strategize based on how your opponent has placed their OMs, you're going explicitly against what the card tells you to do: pick an OM randomly.
~KoS, who could believe that "random" actually meant "without looking", but isn't inclined toward that interpretation when actually picking an OM randomly, like the card says to, is easy to do, and feels infinitely more fair. |
#56
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
I think at the end of the day, TD's will just have to decide the ruling for each event. Not sure there can be only 1 correct interpretation here.
Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#58
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
*Is* it easy to do? If I look at how Order Markers are arranged, my brain processes what I think is the likely placement in microseconds. How do I then "randomly" select one without bringing in any mechanisms beyond what's laid out in the power text?
C3G can be played with official Heroscape, but it's not recommended.
DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards. |
#59
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
I don't think the ODs' intention was to select the OM with a truly Randomized method. I'm pretty sure they used that verbiage to indicate that the opponent is not able to see the OM's and must select one "at random"...even though technically, it's not truly random. Had they intended a truly random selection I feel like they would have been a lot more descriptive on the process required for removing the OM's
Sir Heroscape's Content
Customs, Maps, Battle Reports YouTube Channel, Trade List, 'Scaper of the Month, Burnout Format Tourney Record: 309 - 141 Online Record: 19 - 22 |
#60
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Re: Remove one unrevealed Order Marker at random?
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As another example, there are scenarios in the BftU rulebook that tell you to use a "random" glyph. They don't tell you how to select this glyph, so to do this you'd have to use some mechanism beyond what the rules tell you. I don't think that this means that you're just supposed to pick any face down glyph you like, even if you know exactly what it is from last game. I think the designers expect you to provide your own method of randomness, such as the extraordinarily simple algorithm of "shuffle up the glyphs face down until you don't know which is which, and then pick an arbitrary one" (as with OMs, you could argue that rolling a die is technically more random than shuffling, but I'd only bother with it if another player specifically requested it). Obviously I can't get inside the designer's heads. Clearly there are people here who think that "random" means "without looking", and maybe that's indeed what the designers meant, and the power is just phrased poorly. Without talking to the designers, it's impossible to know one way or the other. But I don't buy the idea that because they didn't tell use exactly how to carry out the random selection, they couldn't possibly have meant "random" when they said "random". ~KoS, noting that he doesn't have anything against players just picking an OM without rolling/shuffling if both players feel that is "sufficiently random". There are, after all, lots of ways that we often violate the letter of the rules for convenience, e.g. not placing all the wound markers on a hero who is destroyed. The issue is when a player insists they have a right to strategically choose the OM to remove, against an opponent's desire to make the selection truly random. |
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