Suggestions for the C3V

[johnny139]

To be fair, though, official Heroscape has its fair share of specific knockoffs. If someone tried to submit the Kravs to the SoV today they'd be rejected, because it's clearly just the Men in Black and what's-her-name from the Matrix.

[Just_a_Bill]

I don't have a particular aversion to those elves, but I will stand up for those who do because there's a principle here that's worthy of discussion.

The fact that we now have obvious Star Wars battle droids in the game pretending to be something else is not exactly a good argument for doing more of the same. Some players don't mind this, and some do ... but overall, the more that licensed movie/book figures are brought into the game, the greater the potential to weaken the acceptance of C3V and SoV customs.

Now perhaps some who like this kind of thing just say in their mind "good riddance" to those who don't. "Shut up and get out of the way of our new units and stop being so picky." But is it that small a clubhouse? Are VCs trying to play to a wider audience, or a narrower one? What's wrong with using miniatures that a larger group can appreciate rather than a smaller group?

If there's truly no other choice, and the day comes when the team is forced to put more obvious characters from other properties into the game, then I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do. But until then, can we explore other options first that don't dilute the visual distinctiveness of Heroscape? I like VCs, and I'd like to keep on liking them. It's just too hard not to recognize those George Lucas indulgences for what they are.

Now again, I don't have a dog in the fight against these elves in particular. I'm not that immersed in Middle-Earth to feel the pain personally. But I think when somebody says "but these minis are very obviously Star Wars/LOTR/Transformers/whatever" we should stop for a moment and respect that viewpoint, and see if something else would better serve the audience as a whole. I don't want other players to feel bothered by the elves they way I am bothered by those battle droids.

Originally Posted by johnny139

To be fair, though, official Heroscape has its fair share of specific knockoffs. If someone tried to submit the Kravs to the SoV today they'd be rejected, because it's clearly just the Men in Black and what's-her-name from the Matrix.

That seems different. An homage doesn't bother me, but knowing that Coolguy Quickquiver is really, physically a certain Elf from Rivendell does. Would you accept a design using a figure that was clearly Bumblebee or Mr. Spock? Somewhere the line needs to be drawn to protect the legitimacy of the work the design team is doing, and drawing it on the side of caution is probably a good idea. Nobody wants the project to come to be seen as a fanboy indulgence.

[wriggz]

The Super Battle Droids look so much like Deathwalker 7000, and there is such a different play style to them, that it never bothered me despite recognizing them. If we used regular battle droids, snow troopers, ewoks or the rebels that fought on Endor, It would be a different story. LOTR elves really stick out to me. Plus we have have elven archers already.

And I think that's the rub. I think carrying on the torch of the designers, and honouring the spirit of "Archkyrie summoning warriors for the battle of all time" I feel like they would look to new warriors. The ZI's filled in a hole you you could drive a mac truck through in Utgars forces from Alpha Prime. It all ways seemed like there should be ranged robots fighting for Utgar. I don't think it feels the same about another Elven Archer Squad.

I know in my own personal customs I think of a figure I want to have and search for a mini. If I find one then I have a custom. That is how I ended up with Valkrill, Vydar and Aquilla Kyrie. That is why I have Pirates, Centaurs and Russian Commandos. I think this is where the best customs come from like the ninja master Dashi and the Skeleton armies. It is when we design the other way, "Hey we can get lots of these figures cheep" that I think the creation process breaks down.

That is why I think Mok and Quahon are such fitting figures. A dwarven Giant and Blue Dragon for Aquilla are big wins. We expected an official Quahon at some point, and well scaled giants are always welcome. Personal Bram is almost too big for my liking. He approaches the point where we start sticking any old action figures on a base.

Again that is why I think it is so important to keep looking to history for figures. From the 8th, to the civil war soldiers, to cowboys and samurai, keeping historical figure in the mix keeps this project tied to the history of Heroscape (pun intended). I would be so easy to give up and just pull from fantasy with a bit of scifi sprinkled in, but this project keeps getting the Historical figures involve. Again that is why I was so excited to find figures that looked Napoleonic, from SWAT teams, or native american.

This is the battle for all time, and I really like how the heads of this project see it as their mandate to keep that is their guiding principle.

[bellahdoll]

Originally Posted by wriggz

This is the battle for all time, and I really like how the heads of this project see it as their mandate to keep that is their guiding principle.

I really want to echo this sentiment. My favorite aspect of Heroscape is easily the historical units, and I really look forward to finding more iconic figures like Aztecs, mongols, the companion cavalry, longbowmen, and WWII and Napoleonic era soldiers. Elite units like Napoleon's Imperial Guard, the SAS, and the Gurkhas are begging to be included in the Battle of All Time.

Also, I have to say that the Scena-a-rama figures were an absolutely amazing find. My hat is off to whoever did so, and it gives me confidence that more suitable historical figures are out there waiting to be found, and the design team is on the lookout for them.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by bellahdoll

Also, I have to say that the Scena-a-rama figures were an absolutely amazing find. My hat is off to whoever did so, and it gives me confidence that more suitable historical figures are out there waiting to be found, and the design team is on the lookout for them.

You can thank @Mossman for alerting us to the Scenearama figures - we're always on the lookout for usable figures, but assistance from fans is always welcome.

As for the use of the Super Battle Droids, most of us in C3V are older people with good taste in Star Wars flicks, so we didn't consider them very iconic.

[Lazy Orang]

Yeah, honestly, with the LotR figures, I really do find Gondor too iconic - I'm not a Star Wars fan, but to me it seems more analogous to using Stormtroopers than Super Battle Droids. The Elves I don't have a problem with, per se, but we already have elf archers - it feels fairly pointless, and they are somewhat recognisable. The Rohan footsoldiers, however, actually look interesting to me. Despite knowing what they are and loving the LotR films, they don't hit the point of too recognisable to me, and I'm wondering if they might work as Saxons or Norsemen. I remember Eye of Sauron used a Rohan footsoldier for his card for Beowulf ages ago, and the figure works for me, looking at it.

[Kinseth]

I feel like LOTR are too iconic.

[TREX]

I love the cathar spearmen, but do they need a support unit? They already have count raymond and marcus decimus. My bros already hate me when I use them in a soldier army.

[mac122]

Heroes from LotR, like heroes from Star Wars, are too iconic, but the elves, soldiers, bowmen, orcs, etc should be just as fair game as the squad Star Wars figures - provided they have the availability to be selected for use.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by mac122

Heroes from LotR, like heroes from Star Wars, are too iconic, but the elves, soldiers, bowmen, orcs, etc should be just as fair game as the squad Star Wars figures - provided they have the availability to be selected for use.

Not quite true - you wouldn't allow Stormtroopers, since they're so obviously Star Wars. Some run of the mill LotR would be okay, just like the Rebel Troopers and Super Battle Droids are, but I really do find the Gondorian armour design extremely iconic.

[mac122]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Not quite true - you wouldn't allow Stormtroopers, since they're so obviously Star Wars. Some run of the mill LotR would be okay, just like the Rebel Troopers and Super Battle Droids are, but I really do find the Gondorian armour design extremely iconic.

First, you are correct about the Stormtroopers. They would not be a good fit for C3V or SoV. They are almost universally recognizable. I should have added that sort of caveat.


I have no doubt they are to you, but outside of a big LotR fan, like yourself, I believe that if you put Gondorian figures in a lineup with other armored soldiers, most people would not be able to pick them out. It's the same for me with the Hoplitron. I immediately recognized it as a Star Wars figure, but a majority of people would not know it. The Super Battle Droids used for the Zettian Infantry crossed a personal line for me, but, at the same time, I recognize the need to repurpose (or dual purpose) prepainted minis from other franchises to keep the customs flowing. I also see it as an easy squad to use in a Classic game as I already have a bunch of them.


Bottom line to me is, if there is enough availability, the Gondor Archers should be considered as possible figures for C3V or SoV. If there isn't availability, the discussion is moot and we can all get on with our lives.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by mac122

If there isn't availability, the discussion is moot and we can all get on with our lives.

Good point. I'm having a hard time finding quantities of these, or even solid information on what figures are in which packs. It's looking like it would be another one of those situations where everyone buys a $25-40 starter pack and then the design team feels compelled to create a hero for every figure in that pack. Hello Frodo, hi Aragorn....

Is there actually a way for everyone to buy appropriate numbers of the needed generic figures at reasonable cost? The usual haunts don't seem to have stock.