Sir Heroscape's customs

[Sir Heroscape]

A few other ideas:

Darkness Rising
The Piercing Dark
Swooping Darkness
Descending Darkness
Dark Descent
Fiendish Descent

[Leaf_It]

Swooping Strike
Fiendish Strike
Dark Shadow
Shadow Strike
Death from above

[Sir Heroscape]

Ooo those are some good ones Leaf!! I like a lot of these ideas!

I’ll try and narrow it down to my favorite 5 and see what people think.

[TREX]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

Swooping Strike
Fiendish Strike
Dark Shadow
Shadow Strike
Death from above

I think the words "Strike" or "Swoop" represent the ability the best as it is some sort of attack type ability. That is why the other names don't quite fit.

[Arch-vile]

I realized I've never taken a look at your customs besides the shadow faction (which I'm hoping succeeds in the SoV!).

Agrith-Naar: Sustained By Blood is an awesome power for a Valkrill Demon. The Soulborg restriction is nice to eliminate rats from the pool. Quadruple Attack seems crazy powerful, but he is probably not stronger than a Hydra, considering the Hydra has more defense and Reach (while Agrith-Naar always has 4 attacks and can fly). It seems like a fair trade-off. He looks like a ton of fun.

Seth the Darklord: Howl is a pretty clever way to have him work with all the Wolf factions. He fits in as a Varkaanan hero and obviously works well with the Badru. Anubians don't get much of a boost but they suck anyway. And hey, he works with Death Knights! Death Knights + Badru + Seth might be fun, but that also might be overkill.

Veguzza: We definitely need more Durgeth. Comfrey Plants is a great callback to the RotV scenario where the Durgeth got their name. It only works with himself and Uzog which is kind of a bummer, but opening it to all wounded heroes seems unthematic for a Valkrill figure, so it actually works here. Limiting Divining Rod to once per turn is a smart twist on a normal d20 boost. I think it's a boring name for that power, though. Maybe "Durgeth Divining Rod" or something (that's a boring suggestion too tbh). Lurk in Swamp is another fun twist on Hide in Swamp. I think it should work in both Swamp and Swamp Water though.

From your other designs, Drunkard and Shrug Off Pain are pretty cool powers. Agreed that Shrug Off Pain would work great on a common squad.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

I realized I've never taken a look at your customs besides the shadow faction (which I'm hoping succeeds in the SoV!).

Agrith-Naar: Sustained By Blood is an awesome power for a Valkrill Demon. The Soulborg restriction is nice to eliminate rats from the pool. Quadruple Attack seems crazy powerful, but he is probably not stronger than a Hydra, considering the Hydra has more defense and Reach (while Agrith-Naar always has 4 attacks and can fly). It seems like a fair trade-off. He looks like a ton of fun.

Seth the Darklord: Howl is a pretty clever way to have him work with all the Wolf factions. He fits in as a Varkaanan hero and obviously works well with the Badru. Anubians don't get much of a boost but they suck anyway. And hey, he works with Death Knights! Death Knights + Badru + Seth might be fun, but that also might be overkill.

Veguzza: We definitely need more Durgeth. Comfrey Plants is a great callback to the RotV scenario where the Durgeth got their name. It only works with himself and Uzog which is kind of a bummer, but opening it to all wounded heroes seems unthematic for a Valkrill figure, so it actually works here. Limiting Divining Rod to once per turn is a smart twist on a normal d20 boost. I think it's a boring name for that power, though. Maybe "Durgeth Divining Rod" or something (that's a boring suggestion too tbh). Lurk in Swamp is another fun twist on Hide in Swamp. I think it should work in both Swamp and Swamp Water though.

From your other designs, Drunkard and Shrug Off Pain are pretty cool powers. Agreed that Shrug Off Pain would work great on a common squad.

Hey thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you like the designs and abilities. It's very helpful in continuing to design and work with these units.

[Sir Heroscape]

Been thinking through my Demon I've been developing and made a pretty significant change....AND would also like some help.

ORIGINAL CARD (for reference)


NEW wording...

Sustained by Blood
Before taking a turn with Agrith-Naar, you must choose a squad figure you control adjacent to Agrith-Naar and destroy it. If you destroy a Squad figure with Sustained by Blood, remove 1 wound marker from this Army Card.If a squad figure was not destroyed by Sustained By Blood, Agrith-Naar receives 1 wound. Sustained By Blood cannot be used on Undead or Soulborgs.

The key here that my Brother in law pointed out is that the net value of destroying a squad figure is actually 2 wounds, rather than just 1. So killing a squad figure is twice as effective and more of a bonus than not. For example, if I fail to kill a squad figure, A-N takes 1 wound. But, if he does...he not only does NOT take a wound, but he also GAINS 1 life. Thus, the net value of destroying a squad figure is 2 wounds (not taking a wound and healing 1). So, I've made the decision that in order to make this ability a little more thematic and balancing for this design, A-N will be sustained by blood and NOT sustained and healed. As the definition of Sustain is "cause to continue or be prolonged for an extended period or without interruption", it makes sense that he would not take damage and that's it. He's been summoned from the "demon realm" (or whatever) and in order for him to stay, there must be sacrifices.

Making this change I think does and will help balance his Quadruple Attack power since now that power becomes even more important for him to fill his points since he'll be a bit of a ticking time bomb. But, I'd be interested to hear what others think. I've considered other abilities like the below ideas...but I've ultimately liked the simplicity and thematic resonance of 4 attacks for having 4 arms and the power of those attacks being mitigated by his potentially short life-span.

Other Attack power ideas...
1.

Inflicted Rage
When Agrith-Naar attacks, he may attack 1 additional time for every wound on his Army Card. Agrith-Naar may not attack more than 4 times in a turn.

This power is essentially the same thing except that he becomes more potent the more injured he gets...which might make it strategic to let him hurt himself for his first couple turns. But, I might consider a bump to 4 Att simply because he'd wouldn't be very scary until he's almost dead.

2. Battle Frenzy (but with a lower roll...maybe a 50% chance)

3.

Double Attacks/Paired Attacks
When Agrith-Naar attacks, he may attack 3 additional times. He may not attack the same figure more than twice.

This is simply just a way to maintain his attack output of 4, but limit his craziness on Heroes. Helps balance the potential here.

This all said, Hydras are nuts for 120pts and so I'm not terrible confident his Quad attack needs to be nerfed yet...but I'm just trying to get some other ideas on the table if people hate my guts for trying to make some OP figure or something (which, quite honestly he's far from...after all, he does kill himself).

Would love some feedback and thoughts.

[Astroking112]

Now that the Acolytes of Vorganund are in Public Playtesting and so we can see what army he'd be working with, I think that he looks like a lot of fun. Removing the heal from Sustained by Blood was definitely a smart choice, both for theme and because if he is played with the Acolytes, you only need to kill a single cultist to place him on the frontlines and mitigate the weakness of getting him into the battlefield.

I wouldn't use the Hydras as a pricing point. They do have a lot of similarities with the quadruple attack, but they (theoretically) quickly lose that effectiveness, lack bonding, are slower, and don't have flying to help with positioning. Given that they're also considered to be some of the best units in the game, it's dangerous to use them as an example here.

If he's testing to be overpowered with the Acolytes, then I would go with the "can't attack the same figure more than twice" limitation on his Quadruple Attack and see where that lands. He still looks very strong on paper, but your testing suggests differently and I wouldn't say that it's a necessary nerf without trying it out.

If you're open to it, another idea for a change is to flip the life/defense ratio (going down to 4L and a higher defense) to make it harder to wound him with normal attacks and make each life point more valuable. As it stands, I'd probably ignore Sustained by Blood the majority of the time since 5 turns on the frontlines is plenty to deal damage, but making each life point more valuable makes the decision a lot harder, and it feels very in line with the cultist playstyle.

Notably, destroying an Acolyte for Sustained by Blood satisfies the Acolytyes' Dark Pact, so even if he doesn't kill an opponent's figure, you get to hide from his wound for giving up the 50% chance that a squad figure will live. I'm not sure if this is in line with the theme you're intending or not.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Now that the Acolytes of Vorganund are in Public Playtesting and so we can see what army he'd be working with, I think that he looks like a lot of fun. Removing the heal from Sustained by Blood was definitely a smart choice, both for theme and because if he is played with the Acolytes, you only need to kill a single cultist to place him on the frontlines and mitigate the weakness of getting him into the battlefield.

Exactly. I really felt like the change to SbB was a step in the right direction thematically AND mechanically.

I wouldn't use the Hydras as a pricing point. They do have a lot of similarities with the quadruple attack, but they (theoretically) quickly lose that effectiveness, lack bonding, are slower, and don't have flying to help with positioning. Given that they're also considered to be some of the best units in the game, it's dangerous to use them as an example here.

mmm, good point.

If he's testing to be overpowered with the Acolytes, then I would go with the "can't attack the same figure more than twice" limitation on his Quadruple Attack and see where that lands. He still looks very strong on paper, but your testing suggests differently and I wouldn't say that it's a necessary nerf without trying it out.

Yeah, I'm going to keep testing him with the Quad attack since his SbB change and see how he does. With a now-constant life drain, it'll be even more imperative he be utilized/summoned when he can do the most damage. I think my preference is to stay simple with the 4 attacks and then add the clause of no more than 2 attacks on a figure if he's testing too strong.

If you're open to it, another idea for a change is to flip the life/defense ratio (going down to 4L and a higher defense) to make it harder to wound him with normal attacks and make each life point more valuable. As it stands, I'd probably ignore Sustained by Blood the majority of the time since 5 turns on the frontlines is plenty to deal damage, but making each life point more valuable makes the decision a lot harder, and it feels very in line with the cultist playstyle.

That's an interesting thought, though I'd be more afraid of him getting a few wounds in 1 turn from focused attacks and then potentially being unused until an Acolyte could get near him for him to swallow (which might take too long and be killed before one reaches him). I'd really rather the player take the occasional risk by having A-N wound himself and get enemy attacks, than be forced to kill an Acolyte EVERY activation in order for him to make sure he doesn't kill himself in just a few turns. 6 life provides some room for a few turns of hurting himself as well as eating some acolytes when it's the right time. For example, he might be out of position to eat an acolyte, but the wound to him might be worth it if he can fly in and go nuts on some enemy units. Likewise...you might also want him to Autokill an Acolyte if he's low life and you need him to survive.

Notably, destroying an Acolyte for Sustained by Blood satisfies the Acolytyes' Dark Pact, so even if he doesn't kill an opponent's figure, you get to hide from his wound for giving up the 50% chance that a squad figure will live. I'm not sure if this is in line with the theme you're intending or not.

Yes it is in line. I wanted there to be some tension for activating this guy. Autokilling an Acolyte does serve to satisfy Dark Pact, which is nice...but Dark Pact is actually the "safer" route if you fail because it's only 50% chance. So, normally you'd want A-N just to take the wound and go hurt something with only a 50% chance for an Acolyte to die. But, killing an Acolyte ensures only 1 wound is being dealt to your own army that turn and it allows A-N to survive a little longer. I like units that create this type of tension in the midst of battle.

[Leaf_It]

The change to Sustained by Blood will probably help it get past the SoV more smoothly.

Inflicted Rage seems like a design direction that would not include the nerf to sustained by blood. Playing him would be a balancing act, where you try to keep his life low, but not too low so that the enemy can't get a lucky hit to finish him off at 2 life. I think I like the design better without inflicted rage just because, why would he wait to use all of his swords until he's hurt?

I think that it's thematic that Dark pact is fulfilled by AN's Sustained by Blood.

[Sir Heroscape]

Originally Posted by Leaf_It

I think I like the design better without inflicted rage just because, why would he wait to use all of his swords until he's hurt?

Agreed. It was just an idea I was playing with while thinking about potential nerfs if this design came to that.

I think that it's thematic that Dark pact is fulfilled by AN's Sustained by Blood.

Thanks! That was intentional

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

That's an interesting thought, though I'd be more afraid of him getting a few wounds in 1 turn from focused attacks and then potentially being unused until an Acolyte could get near him for him to swallow (which might take too long and be killed before one reaches him). I'd really rather the player take the occasional risk by having A-N wound himself and get enemy attacks, than be forced to kill an Acolyte EVERY activation in order for him to make sure he doesn't kill himself in just a few turns. 6 life provides some room for a few turns of hurting himself as well as eating some acolytes when it's the right time. For example, he might be out of position to eat an acolyte, but the wound to him might be worth it if he can fly in and go nuts on some enemy units. Likewise...you might also want him to Autokill an Acolyte if he's low life and you need him to survive.

I actually feel like it's balanced a little too much towards the opposite direction currently. As it stands, I think that it rarely makes sense to destroy your own Acolyte, since he's already pretty durable and probably doesn't need too much time to deal his damage with so many attacks and flying. Making his base life lower would make that sacrifice more painful, but I suspect that it would still be one that people make on more than one occasion.

Perhaps 5 life would be a better balance, though, in terms of making Sustained by Blood have a more impactful negative impact without forcing the player to play him like a Hivelord.

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Yes it is in line. I wanted there to be some tension for activating this guy. Autokilling an Acolyte does serve to satisfy Dark Pact, which is nice...but Dark Pact is actually the "safer" route if you fail because it's only 50% chance. So, normally you'd want A-N just to take the wound and go hurt something with only a 50% chance for an Acolyte to die. But, killing an Acolyte ensures only 1 wound is being dealt to your own army that turn and it allows A-N to survive a little longer. I like units that create this type of tension in the midst of battle.

It might just be a matter of perspective. If I know that I'm not going to be able to attack anything, then I would go ahead and guarantee that Agrith-Naar ignores the wound rather than take a chance at 2 wounds that turn. Of course, the smarter move in that instance is to just not take a turn with Agrith-Naar in the first place unless you need to hunt something down, so I don't think that it really matters too much. I just wanted to make sure that was the theme you were intending.