HeroScape is coming back!

[wriggz]

Originally Posted by nyys

I haven't really looked at any of the cards yet, but 3 out of 20 is 15% having 4 abilities. That's kind of a lot. At that rate (assuming it doesn't, god forbid, go up) there'll be a whole heckuvalot of 4 ability units out in the wild after a couple years of releases.

Games evolve, I realize that, but that makes it sound like a very different game.

Of course we also don't have the full sample size of the full boat of units for AoA, so that % is likely (hopefully) smaller.

It is a different game the market has changed. What needed to be painted and simple for mass market doesn't apply to the more mature and niche audience that renegade will bring in.

Looking back Heroscape should have never existed, just like the way the Lord of the rings trilogy should not have happened. Both took vision and passion that in hindsight was too expensive to repeat.

Heroscape got past the bean counters the first time around.

[Myriadite]

I haven't done a very thorough comparison; have any of the revealed power designs changed since the original Haslab? I have only noticed general and name changes. A lot of really good designers were involved in that initial offering; I am curious how much designing Renegade had to even do.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Myriadite

I haven't done a very thorough comparison; have any of the revealed power designs changed since the original Haslab? I have only noticed general and name changes. A lot of really good designers were involved in that initial offering; I am curious how much designing Renegade had to even do.

I know @Dad_Scaper designed most if not all of the Pirates.

Bok-Bur-Na
Marro, like any sentient species, have varied cultures. Some revel in a cruel caste system, engineering their own kin from birth to be servants and workers. But others are more egalitarian. To them, the hive is a source of comfort, and a way to feel belonging with their fellows in a harsh world.

When the sinister Valkyrie General Utgar summoned Marro indiscriminately to serve him, some were inevitably from different hives. Thus, Bok-Bur-Na has been separated from his kin. He misses them terribly. And he will do anything to make Utgar, and all the Valkyrie, pay dearly for the emptiness he now feels in his soul.

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

I was excited to see there was a new Marro until I drilled in to see that it's a Marro mashed up with a Pirate, wearing ... pants? ... and with a backstory of hating and wanting revenge on Utgar -- but he still fights for Utgar and synergizes with other Utgar figures? I guess I'm just stupid, but this confused me. Marro are foundational to Heroscape's personality, but we only get one in this whole wave and it's this?

Wow!

[chas]

I see they made him a Captain instead of a First Officer, which is better for bonding.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Tmac2200

I can't be the only one excited for pairing Ewashia with Vipers, Marro Warriors, & Microcorp Agents. Dropping water on top of lava rock to make high ground lava rock safe to stay on. If a board is dominated by a single pathway you can drop water on it to keep non-slithering units slowed down. Having portable water to respawn Marro Warriors. It all sounds very fun to me, I'm not concerned with the complexity.

Yes I forgot about marro warriors. I think Ewashia is gonna be top 5 meta units from the new stuff personally

[Shiftrex]

Does seem like some conflicting themes considering the backstory but most people just design unit + figure and don't pay attention to any backstory. That's been brought up in VC a few times, that all they are looking at to communicate theme is the miniature and the card.

Unit seems mechanically interesting, no issues with it.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

It never left.

Originally Posted by Shiftrex

Does seem like some conflicting themes considering the backstory but most people just design unit + figure and don't pay attention to any backstory. That's been brought up in VC a few times, that all they are looking at to communicate theme is the miniature and the card.

Unit seems mechanically interesting, no issues with it.

In my case, there is always some kind of backstory implied by theme, but both are flexible. During the ongoing design process, my custom Pirate, Captain Xue, was originally an Outlaw, then a Rogue, then a Pirate, went from Vydar to Utgar, from a fighter for outcasts and against injustice, to a mutineer and ruthless mistress of death. I'm always looking for thematic consistency among the sculpt, stats and powers, as well as playability and fun - in a unique combination.

I find three to be the ideal number of powers to create a uniquely thematic card.

[Hogg]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

I'm happy for those who are excited about these offerings, but neither of these two revival attempts have tapped into the things that made me spend literally thousands of dollars on original Heroscape.

Same. I'll spend a little money on it when it comes out, but I'm not buying 4x commons and terrain anymore. With the new prices that may not be practical anyway, depending on how commons are packaged.

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

With the preorders now (somewhat) open to examination, I'm getting an uneasy overall sense of not quite enough design discipline. Somehow the new cards just seem overall "sloggy" or "gooey" rather than smoothly digestible. Part of it is the number of abilities, part is the wordings, and another part is whatever is going on with character naming...

Really miss the old craftsmanship.

Don't forget the new species type "Varied."

Originally Posted by wriggz

Looking back Heroscape should have never existed, just like the way the Lord of the rings trilogy should not have happened. Both took vision and passion that in hindsight was too expensive to repeat.

Heroscape got past the bean counters the first time around.

Not really though, it was around for the better part of a decade so it was making money.

[Just_a_Bill]

Originally Posted by wriggz

Looking back Heroscape should have never existed, just like the way the Lord of the rings trilogy should not have happened. Both took vision and passion that in hindsight was too expensive to repeat.

Insightful and interesting analogy! I think you're right.

Originally Posted by Hogg

Don't forget the new species type "Varied."

Oh, I hadn't noticed that. Yuck.

Originally Posted by Hogg

Not really though, it was around for the better part of a decade so it was making money.

I get what wriggz is saying, though. The original quality of it was a thing that was just too high and too good to be economically repeatable indefinitely. Heroscape kept going on its momentum, yes, but it was constantly making compromises and downsizing in subtle ways. Loss of sparkly water, switch to white dice (and fewer of 'em), thinner army cards, ever-shrinking master set configurations, gradually fewer average figures per booster (ending up at just 3 with the Groks) ... then it had to make the unholy alliances with D&D and MtG to keep staggering on life support for a little longer.

Yes, it had a good run, but the amazing, unprecedented glory of the original vision was subtly in decline almost the entire time. Fighting against economic pressures almost right from the beginning because it was just a bit "too good for its own good."

[Scapemage]

I'm super stoked about all of this. Yeah, it's expensive, and moreso than I might have hoped for, but all that said, I'm just so excited. Renegade has done a beautiful thing most of us thought would never happen. I appreciate their efforts and will be happily picking up the new product to enjoy a nostalgic experience if nothing else. The jungle sets are a godsend for me. I only have one of those. I'm already excited for the wave 2 reveal in June.

Thanks for keeping our community alive, everyone.

[Robotech Master]

Not sure I agree with thinking the naming conventions and stuff are the result of new craftsmanship. We saw these figures during the Avalon hill crowdfunding. We saw images of the multiracial pirates which instead of 'varied' was 'integrated' (trying to say the same thing), and the hero names which are mostly the same (other than Knight Irene, and Xenithrax used to be the Soul Weaver instead of Vine Weaver).

And what I recall hearing back then is there was a lot of old hats involved in the AoA material when it first appeared.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Just_a_Bill

Yes, it had a good run, but the amazing, unprecedented glory of the original vision was subtly in decline almost the entire time. Fighting against economic pressures almost right from the beginning because it was just a bit "too good for its own good."

This, 100%