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C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs |
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#5869
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
I'd word it something like... (And limit it to just one attack.)
Choose a figure or empty space within X spaces of MARS, no clear line of sight is needed. Any figures adjacent to the chosen figure or adjacent to the chosen empty space are affected by MISSILE BARRAGE SPECIAL ATTACK. Roll 3 attack dice once for all affected figures. MARS can be affected by his MISSILE BARRAGE SPECIAL ATTACK. Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#5870
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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After much consideration, I going to vote Nay to review M.A.R.S. There are certainly things I like about the unit; certainly the theme comes through strongly, and I'm happy to see a design for another unit of that set of figures. It's a tough call, but there are just too many things about the design that don't sit well with me. I don't really agree with the power level questions people have brought up. If units were costed based on how well they could do in their best match-up, Sudema would cost at least as much as the most costly Unique Hero. There are lots of things that go into unit pricing, but primarily based on the unit's capabilities, not on specific opponents.
Last edited by Scytale; October 1st, 2018 at 04:13 PM. |
#5871
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
Is this a vote?
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#5872
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
It is now.
to review MARS. Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV Last edited by caps; October 1st, 2018 at 01:20 PM. Reason: I do hate the dots in the name. I'm never going to write it like that |
#5873
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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The Airborne Elite also share M.A.R.S.' move and range, leaving them in very similar playstyles, but they sacrifice 1 attack for being able to make 4 in one turn. They also have a plethora of synergies and The Drop, which almost entirely negates their largest weakness, for 15 points cheaper than M.A.R.S. In most cases, I've found that M.A.R.S. wasn't the best use of 125 points, somewhat because of comparisons like this. I think that M.A.R.S. also has many similarities with DW8k and Laglor. Yes, theoretically all three could wipe a board, but as you said with the latter two, it is very unlikely. I would say that he produces a slightly more consistent result than those two figures, but Laglor gets his more of his value from his range-boost and DW8k is hardly the pinnacle of balance. In most competitive HeroScape boards, he still gains no benefit from being able to target behind him. I can see the concern for the potential threat-range there, but also keep in mind that he only has 4 move and no movement synergies or anything to help him. It will take several turns of pushing him forward to get him near the center of the board, during which time you are not positioning the entire rest of your army. If he can even make it to the middle of the board or to the high-ground before dying, then it's very likely near the end of the game and you made some severe sacrifices with the rest of your positioning. Also on the theme of hitting two different targets, we've seen it countless times in video games and all sorts of animations before. HeroScape isn't really a physics simulation and has taken plenty of inspiration from game tropes and other things, so I don't see any kind of thematic problem with a missile launcher locking on to multiple targets before releasing a volley. Quote:
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Viceron the Blood Knight and Brimstone can both hit up to 18 figures, assuming they are completely swarmed. Quote:
Since this is VC, all of the Deathwalkers also have synergy with the Zettian Infantry, because they generally underperformed in classic. Because M.A.R.S. is designed as a standalone unit, I think that he will naturally look a little bit stronger in comparison, but I've tried to avoid completely outclassing anything. Quote:
And thanks for fixing the image! I must've been doing the links wrong, so I'll take a look at that and reverse-engineer the result. Quote:
I generally wouldn't take DW9k at all without VC, and M.A.R.S. is designed with VC in mind. I'm afraid to balance him solely with classic-only DW9k in mind, because that's using a C figure as a reference point. I of course want M.A.R.S. to be more usable than that, which is why I've aimed for B/B+ in designing him and been more realistic about what he can usually accomplish. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#5874
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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It is one of the bigger normal attacks in the game, and I don't see on the card why it is so, when the rockets themselves are presented by the Special Attack. Major Q10, by comparison, has an explanation right on the card for what's happening with his different attacks. For myself, I would have suggested a normal attack of 2 with a range of 8, to hint at a smaller, more precise projectile, or (my preference) an attack of 5, with a range of 1, to demonstrate just how dangerous he is when he stomps on you with his long legs. If the latter, I would bump his life to 5 and see how he plays. But nobody asked me, and this is not a workshop. Last edited by Dad_Scaper; October 1st, 2018 at 02:48 PM. |
#5875
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
AE can do their grenade drop 1 time, MARS can do it every turn. Really big difference there.
Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#5876
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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#5877
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Since we're comparing the Deathwalkers, M.A.R.S. does have a similar risk of getting one shot. The running joke is that it only takes 1 skull to kill the Deathwalkers. For the same reason that only 1 skull can break the 8 or 9 defense, it will only take 2 skulls to break the lower defense of 5 that M.A.R.S. has. Honestly, I would feel more confident killing M.A.R.S. than DW9, DW8 or DW7. I would agree that the potency of M.A.R.S. is higher than DW8, or Laglor, but DW8, and DW9 are C- tier in Classic scape, and only rise to B in C3V/SoV rankings because of all the synergy that was added to help them. The same situation is true for Laglor. If the goal as I understand it, is to aim for B tier, than without any synergy M.A.R.S. should be a straight upgrade to DW8, and DW9. Isn't the C3V, and SoV's goal to make everything sit at around B tier? Why are we trying to tie something down to C tier? It has been brought up by others already, but missiles are actually very accurate. I'm not sure where you came to believe that missiles wouldn't be. Almost every video game in existence that has any kind of missile launcher, has a guided missile launcher as well, or even instead of a non-guided launcher. In just the militaries of today, we have very sophisticated targeting technology to guide missiles to their targets with extremely high accuracy. A robot from the future is going to be even more sophisticated, and accurate. Also, as it was brought up by others, Missiles don't have kick like bullets. They are self-propelled once ignited, and igniting them is as easy as a spark. -------- I'm a little irritated that no one has taken much of a look at my Deathwing comparison. Seriously, think about it. 2 explosion special attacks, in 2 different places. The Deathwings have flying to compensate for not being a ranged special attack, there's 2 of them so you can get even farther away from each than M.A.R.S. can, and they roll 5 attack dice, over the measly 3 that M.A.R.S. gets. They even get the same 5 defense at range that M.A.R.S. has. You might loose 50 points for the 2 of them that exploded, but for the same price as M.A.R.S. you'll get 3 more, and they are much more versatile with their Hyper Speed Burst run 'n gun potential. There's 2 of them to match the 2 lives that M.A.R.S. has. Looking at it, M.A.R.S. is just the slower, non-flying hero version of the Deathwings. If they aren't broken, I really don't think M.A.R.S. will be either. My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#5878
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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These are all much much worse than MARS, completely different class of figures. Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#5879
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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• The total move of 7 compensates for the lack of range. A total of 4 attack dice are rolled, or since they have flying, and they can take height pretty easily, for a total of 6 attack dice, over the potential of 5 if you can ever get M.A.R.S. onto height. I do concede that 4 attack is better than 2 attacks of 2. • They do have to get in close, but they have a lot more firepower when they do, and they have the mobility to pull it off. • It's true, the maximum potential of 12 compared the potential of 18, looks weaker on paper, but the Deathwings can fill the gaps than a good player will make to try and counter the explosion. with M.A.R.S. you just need 1 space between everything to turn the special into a single target double attack. The Deathwings can fill those gaps of 1 space with themselves. • You sacrifice 50 points, and for the 125 that M.A.R.S. brings you'll have another 3 Deathwings to use with your 5 Special attack dice. • 3 defense against melee, Evasive makes it 5 against range, matching M.A.R.S., and if you are close enough for melee to reach you, you're either on height, or blowing yourself up anyway, so it wouldn't matter. I think that M.A.R.S. is better than a squad of Deathwings. But I think He's about on par with 2 and a half squads of Deathwings. My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#5880
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion
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Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |