How DnD screwed up Heroscape

[Taeblewalker]

I was at a con yesterday in Connecticut and the vendor had a D&D master set for sale. I didn't ask how much it was. I was surprised to see anyone still selling Heroscape.

[Lazy Orang]

I actually really liked the D&D stuff - my favourite classic Unique Hero and Common Squad, Heirloom and the Warforged Soldiers, came from it after all, and Uncommon Heroes were something that, IMO, has been needed since the beginning. My few problems with it were the Eladrin (not calling them Elves was silly - they have Humans, Orcs, Dwarves and Dragons on different worlds, even with cross polinating synergy, what was the problem with Elves?) and the sole use of one theme for the time it was in production. I didn't even have a problem with the theme itself - I had no issue with D&D characters being in Heroscape. It is the Battle for All Time, after all, just about anything fits the way I see it. It just would have been nice to see more stuff from other places as well, especially historical settings. I liked seeing alot of the D&D stuff thematically, even though I'm only sketchily familiar with D&D from a half-played computer game RPG here and there - the new worlds and settings didn't bother me one jot.

One thing that did sting, however, was the fliers for D&D in the last wave. Any other wave, I wouldn't have had a problem - in that one it felt like a kick in the crotch.

That said, I'm glad it was discontinued, in a way - I'd never have got into Superscape if it wasn't, and I think the game is be even more exciting with the fans at the helm.

[Grishnakh]

Don't forget the cost of molds, the cost of developing new concepts, the cost of sculpting new figures, figuring out paint schemes, etc. Half the reason D&D Heroscape exists is they were using already existing molds. Big cost savings. I think that's the main reason they went the route they did. All of the other ideas and thoughts mentioned in this thread were just gravy to them. Hire some freelancers to produce the statistics of the cards (which they did) keeps the cost even lower. Especially since the freelancers were very well versed in the mechanics of the game. Now you have the cost of printing the cards, the die line to punch them out is a standing die you already have. What other cost do you need to incur? Packaging development, cost of your materials, retooling the base of the figures, and shipping and distribution. Face it, WotC was able to roll these waves out a lot cheaper than Hasbro. No expert here, just been in the printing business awhile and am second guessing what might have been going on at the time.

[The B.I.V.]

Another thing that bugs me. The introduction of Valkrill. Now you have units that are evil, but that aren't affected by units such as Templar Knights and even Ana Karithon, another DnD fig. Sure it's just thematic, but it just seems wrong... I mean Mezzodaemeons aren't affected by Protection from Evil?!!

[Crixus33]

Originally Posted by The B.I.V.

Another thing that bugs me. The introduction of Valkrill. Now you have units that are evil, but that aren't affected by units such as Templar Knights and even Ana Karithon, another DnD fig. Sure it's just thematic, but it just seems wrong... I mean Mezzodaemeons aren't affected by Protection from Evil?!!

That is my major critique. I'm okay with basically everything, but the thematic issues caused by Valkrill's late release were annoying. Righteous smite thematically, in my mind, makes more sense against the chaotic evil seeking death to all than the structured evil that is out for personal gain. But that is a minor complaint and I agree with its better than nothing and that it was the right business move to try and keep it alive. I do really enjoy a lot of the pieces like the deathchasers, wyrmlings, and hydra to name but a few. Just my .

[Typhon2222]

Let's face it: the game would have been best had WotC developed and produced it from the beginning. Then it would have had, at least, a unified theme -- not the "let's throw everything into the blender" excuse for a so-called 'theme' that Classic Scape had.

[ParaGoomba Slayer]

I do like a lot of the abilities that the D&D units have, but it's just that they're all not that visually appealing. Some do fit in with the regular Scape aesthetic both in regards to how they look and their abilities (like the Greenscale Warriors) and others just have cool abilities and don't look good.

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Let's face it: the game would have been best had WotC developed and produced it from the beginning. Then it would have had, at least, a unified theme -- not the "let's throw everything into the blender" excuse for a so-called 'theme' that Classic Scape had.

I can't tell if this is a cleverly disguised joke/troll post or not.

Leaning towards joke. Either way we have to confiscate your Scape card.

[Typhon2222]

Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer

I can't tell if this is a cleverly disguised joke/troll post or not.

Leaning towards joke. Either way we have to confiscate your Scape card.

Hee hee.

It was intended light-heartedly, and lovingly, but seriously. I adore 'Scape despite its 'theme', not because of it, and would love it even more if it presented a unified milieu. Classic fantasy.... Space opera sci fi.... Post-apocalyptic... Ancient.... Whatever, as long as it chose one and stuck with it. The lack of any thematic cohesion kept me far away from the game until WotC finally came in and introduced some.

[MegaSilver]

The mix-match is what captured me and made me stay.

[Dragon4201976]

I myself think D&D Scape would have been excepted better if it was a total stand alone and they made it a good v's evil style. Take away the generals.
Just plain D&D battle for the Underdark.
Then if it was Profitable for WOTC they could have revisited The original Heroscape line down the road, Trying to integrate D&D and Classic Scape was a mistake in MO. But they did it and they didn't feel it succeeded so they Advertised the end of Scape and promoted D&D. WOTC at its best!

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by Typhon2222

Hee hee.

It was intended light-heartedly, and lovingly, but seriously. I adore 'Scape despite its 'theme', not because of it, and would love it even more if it presented a unified milieu. Classic fantasy.... Space opera sci fi.... Post-apocalyptic... Ancient.... Whatever, as long as it chose one and stuck with it. The lack of any thematic cohesion kept me far away from the game until WotC finally came in and introduced some.

If I remember correctly, this is what Matt Drake said about it. And he's one of my favorite game critics out there, and an alum of this very board. T22 is not alone in staking out this ground, and has good company.

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

The mix-match is what captured me and made me stay.

It's my sense that this opinion is probably that of most 'Scaper's, though.


It's worth noting that the games spawned by Heroscape - Summoner Wars, Battleship Galaxies, others - do not adopt the "Battle of All Time" theme.

[Sherman Davies]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

It's worth noting that the games spawned by Heroscape - Summoner Wars, Battleship Galaxies, others - do not adopt the "Battle of All Time" theme.

Those games figured, "Why try to improve on perfection?"