Isamu Strategy Article

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

In Owlman's defense, I think quite a few of these "clubs" and "groups" on heroscapers are goofy and petty, just the little things they do, permissions you need, etc. Not specifically saying the unit strategy group, though. I still like the site, though.

If it's a stupid group, build your own format. If you want to use the format, have some respect and ask permission. Regardless of whether it's a "dead" game, a person should conduct himself with good manners.

[Ninja Status]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

If it's a stupid group, build your own format. If you want to use the format, have some respect and ask permission. Regardless of whether it's a "dead" game, a person should conduct himself with good manners.

The point of these groups is to assist the heroscapers community. Many users would most likely become inactive if C3V was to die off, or if the Codex shut down.

The people who dedicate their time to these groups do it because they want to see Heroscape become something more than it is. They're here to entertain and to show their art, and if you don't care for it you should at least show some respect for the work they do and for the time they put in.

[Unhinged Manchild]

Originally Posted by Ninja Status

The point of these groups is to assist the heroscapers community. Many users would most likely become inactive if C3V was to die off, or if the Codex shut down.

The people who dedicate their time to these groups do it because they want to see Heroscape become something more than it is. They're here to entertain and to show their art, and if you don't care for it you should at least show some respect for the work they do and for the time they put in.

I respect the work people put in, I really like the C3V and C3G customs. I try to give them lots of shout outs when I use the figures in my own games (I don't ask permission or anything to print the cards/use the figures in my battle reports, I don't even know if that's a thing,) and I think I attempt to show respect.

I'm just going to stop arguing here, I'm not involved enough in the site to really make counters, I simply stated my opinion.

Back on topic, I do like the article, why don't one of you guys from that group PM Owlman and try to hash this out? Fix tidbits and such, add this to the list of strategy reviews!

Edit: After skimming back through the article, I feel that you may not want to assume that Isamu will have height against figures like syvarris, DED, kma, or almost any other ranged figures, because he will likely be running at them while THEY are on height, maybe even ground at best for most situations.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

In Owlman's defense, I think quite a few of these "clubs" and "groups" on heroscapers are goofy and petty, just the little things they do, permissions you need, etc. Not specifically saying the unit strategy group, though. I still like the site, though.

Anyway, I don't think isamu really needs to fear braxas or grimnak much, as the d20 rolls required to instakill isamu with those figures probably aren't worth your opponent's OMs just to kill a 10 point figure (and of course, it could vary, if isamu is within striking range of Raelin/other key figure, his threat level is much higher.)

I've never really used isamu for anything specific other than glyph grab and clean up.

Isamu seems totally d20 dependant, he could technically kill 20 knights, or he could die before getting a single kill. I don't feel like I have too much control over how well he does.

Yup, but for 10 points, it's not that big a deal, though right? That's the beauty of him. He can perform like a boss, or epically fall flat.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by Dysole

Really the chess classification is not what a unit CAN do but what it USUALLY does and its usual impact on the game/how recklessly you'll charge it into battle. Zombies and Vipers are pawn units because you don't care if you lose them. Nilfheim and Charos are queen units because if they die you're out a very big hole. By saying Isamu is anything other than a pawn unit is ascribing a whole new value to the chess classification not one used by others so it ceases to be helpful.

~Dysole, probably done with this conversation

I can see your point, but as you can see, there's the rub. I try to factor in what they are CAPABLE of as well. Isamu has incredible potential to outlast every other unit in Scape. Jotun can fling figures off cliffs, and into lava. Ne-gok-sa and the Shades can take over Hero's permanently! They are unique in what they do, and I like to factor that in.

I also tend to rate squads/heroes as to how well they function as stand alone units. Not everyone has the $$$ to buy tons of common squads for instance, especially these days. (I've seen the Capuan Gladiators, Axe Grinders, etc...Go for a ton of cash. It's nuts.)

So can a single squad of Zombies stack up? Nope. Contrast them with the Izumi Samurai, and you can see the difference. Ergo, I rate them higher.

1 squad of Microcorp vs. Krav Maga. The Microcorp are just as deadly, if not more so for there added special bonus's. They are great stand alone squads, and great in groups. So if I was doing an article about them, I'd prob. rate them as Bishop class, or quite possibly Knight class in smaller games.

[Owlman]

Posted by Dok:

That's fair. Of course anyone can write any strategy article they please, and frankly not every USR article is all that great. However, in this case Owlman rather blatantly copied the format of a bunch of guides that all say, essentially, please ask permission before using this format. If he just wrote an Isamu strategy guide without copying the format, nobody would have batted an eye.

Only thing I really copied was the Class ratings, and Offense/Defense, and Units to avoid. And I also gave two shout outs to them in later posts. Really don't see the big deal here.

I agree; Isamu doesn't care much about Braxas or Grimnak or Sudema or other low-probability autokills or autowounds. TKN, Fire Elementals, counterstrikers, engagement strikers, and Black Wyrmlings are all much bigger threats to him.

I did forget about the Nikita Agents (Again!) and Fire elementals. Honestly though, practically everything is a threat to a dude with 1 life, haha. I tried to highlight the major ones.

It is very, very rarely worth an OM to put Isamu in position for mid-game assassination, though. I've tried to move Isamu up to kill Raelin in midgame exactly once, ever... and it didn't work.

Interesting, because in my experience, I've had TONS of success with him mid-to late game. Just the other night, my buddy and I played a few matches. Isamu took out: (Ready for this?)...3 Minions of Utgar...And Su-Bak-Na...By HIMSELF! it was epic! My buddy had good placement, it was down to the ninja and a wounded Sonya Esenwein. He charged me, I vanished, then rolled skulls, and the rest is history.

Using RFoF to activate Isamu isn't that great, either, because Marcu or a big hero are almost always better. One exception for me was an Ornak/Utgar Hero/Deathreaver army that I used in a Heat of Battle tournament. I often used Ornak's opening RFoF turn to activate Isamu and Marcu, while Krug, Shurrak, and Brunak remained safely behind the Deathreavers. Then I would engage with rats and get my big heroes into the game on OM3.

Eh, Marcu can pull his weight, but he can betray you aas well, whereas Isamu does not, and is cheaper, and has statistically better defense than Marcu.

Originally Posted by brandonwiker

Isamu seems totally d20 dependant, he could technically kill 20 knights, or he could die before getting a single kill. I don't feel like I have too much control over how well he does.

Yep. This is not to say there's no strategy with Isamu, but the ratio of luck to skill that goes into success with Isamu is about the highest in the game. Which is why Isamu is one of my least favorite figures.[/QUOTE]

I define skill in this game by mainly placement of figures, and perhaps choosing your teams. But then again, I go with themed teams, I don't like mixing and matching. There's far more providential dice rolling in this game than skill, IMO. How would you define skill in Scape? If you would say good dice rolling, I'd disagree.

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by TheAverageFan

I do agree that his value is highly variable since he'll either never die or die instantly (not that he'd ever be a Queen unit), but his real purpose is still pretty minimal. You'd never build a whole army around him.

As far as strategy, I can't say there's a whole lot outside of the obvious... the best thing to do with Isamu is to simply kill something or waste time. Either easily covers his point value, since he's so darn cheap to buy. I'd sooner see a strategy guide for Otonashi since she seems much harder to play successfully (I dunno if she's got one or not).

Anyway, if yer not certified to make guides, I think the best thing you can do is make unofficial strategy guides. There's some really funny spoof guides that aren't really official for some of the more "no-duh" units out there. I'd pursue that course if you aren't allowed to make official ones.

~TAF, whose Isamu always dies instantly

P.S. I think Brandis is more dangerous to Raelin unless she goes right up to Isamu

Lol, perhaps I should apply for my 'Official HeroScape Strategy Article Guide Maker License', haha!

And oooh...Otonashi may be my next articale...I was all set to do a Marro Warrior one, then realized it had been done... *face palms*

In all seriousness, I would love to see my lil' article become official for my favorite Hero. I'll PM about it.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Originally Posted by Owlman

I define skill in this game by mainly placement of figures, and perhaps choosing your teams. But then again, I go with themed teams, I don't like mixing and matching. There's far more providential dice rolling in this game than skill, IMO. How would you define skill in Scape? If you would say good dice rolling, I'd disagree.

I would define skill in the game as not much in Isamu. As I have said before, he's only 10 points and he's played with a d20. You don't have to do much except choose targets, which are all good because they all cost at least as much as Isamu. I would say skill has more to do with those right hand stats that have you rolling six-sided dice than with the d20. Even more skill comes with placement. Take for example, Raelin. You choose where to put her, and then she increases the chances of you rolling shields, keeping the luck factor lower, sorta. And she never has to roll a die, quite possibly. Take also for example a Shade of Bleakewoode. Where you put him can limit where your opponent will be willing to move his or her heroes, a fear factor, even though the ability is totally luck-dependent. Those are both examples of what I would call STRATEGY.

Now look at Isamu. You can use him during the game, when there are choices and stuff, but its not wise and you can lose control of the board. In short, its bad order marker efficiency. You can use him the way everybody uses him: Save him till the end of the game and then roll the d20 if you need to. You don't need strategy to play Isamu like that.

Beep! In red.

[kolakoski]

Well met!

Originally Posted by Owlman

So noted. My apologies, I thought that was specifically for submitting in that particular thread. (Although I do feel it should not be necessary to submit a strategy article to a club of members for it to get approved, personally. HeroScape is a (dead) game, and should not be taken so seriously, IMO.)

Originally Posted by Owlman

I would ask that everyone not take my (or other) articles so seriously, as these articles are merely creative speculation and opinion, for the most part. Fluff, if you will.

If anything, I would hope they serve the primary purpose to entertain.

(Also, don't "official" article reviews have some sort of exclusive badge associated with them? Therefore, one needn't worry, my article does not have one, so It's easy to tell the difference.)

Originally Posted by Owlman

I wanted more posters to see my admiration for the little ninja.

Originally Posted by Owlman

I'm not gonna ask permission to write a strategy article for a dead game, that very few people play, meant to entertain people. Plain and simple. If folks like my article, cool. If not, I won't lose sleep over it. Or a mod can simply delete it. Whatever makes 'em happy. (No offense to anyone intended by this statement.)

I'm just sayin', when it comes to articles and stuff, maybe this awesome but not super popular website needs all the help it can get to keep things interesting. (Hec, my article will probably get lost in the bowls of HeroScape history in the next few weeks time, anyways.)

So like I said before, this is all opinion.

I have absolutely no clue who the Black Wyrmling is.

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

If it's a stupid group, build your own format. If you want to use the format, have some respect and ask permission. Regardless of whether it's a "dead" game, a person should conduct himself with good manners.

Originally Posted by Ninja Status

The point of these groups is to assist the heroscapers community. Many users would most likely become inactive if C3V was to die off, or if the Codex shut down.

The people who dedicate their time to these groups do it because they want to see Heroscape become something more than it is. They're here to entertain and to show their art, and if you don't care for it you should at least show some respect for the work they do and for the time they put in.

Originally Posted by Owlman

Lol, perhaps I should apply for my 'Official HeroScape Strategy Article Guide Maker License', haha!
Pp
And oooh...Otonashi may be my next articale...I was all set to do a Marro Warrior one, then realized it had been done... *face palms*

In all seriousness, I would love to see my lil' article become official for my favorite Hero. I'll PM about it.

So, Owlman, . . . Heroscape is a dead game that should not be taken seriously. Your articles (or anyone else's) should not be taken seriously, as they are "merely creative speculation and opinion, . . . Fluff . . .", whose primary purpose is to entertain. Very few people play it, and our not so popular site needs help (specifically yours) to keep things interesting. However, "[i]n all seriousness," you'd like your article to become "official," in spite of your deliberate ignorance of (official Heroscape) D&D units, and dismissal of Fanscape - C3V/SoV, and you wanted "more posters to see your admiration for the little ninja." And you've been here how long?

Merry Christmas!

~ Kolakoski, who thought he was all that (Heroscape-wise) not so long ago

"The first step towards wisdom is to admit you know nothing." ~ Socrates

[Owlman]

[quote=Maklar the Silver Prince;1991878]

Originally Posted by Owlman

Beep! In red.

Well, if I happen to be fighting an army with Raelin, you better believe she'll be target #1. And I get that the accepted strategy is to wait for the end game, but I tried to highlight other possibilities for Isamu as well. I was trying to get folks to think outside the box.

I agree though, Isamu is primarily a luck figure. Dice rolling in and of itself is all luck, there is no skill involved. But factor in D20 rolls, and and I'd agree that Isamu is one of the most luck based figures in the game.

The Shade example kind of falls flat, because the same can be said of any figure, really. Position any figure correctly, (which takes skill) and you can create a fear factor. (It could be a Rat holding a glyph, or Brazas with Height advantage. Doesn't matter that much, IMO.)

[Owlman]

Originally Posted by kolakoski

Well met!

So, Owlman, . . . Heroscape is a dead game that should not be taken seriously. Your articles (or anyone else's) should not be taken seriously, as they are "merely creative speculation and opinion, . . . Fluff . . .", whose primary purpose is to entertain. Very few people play it, and our not so popular site needs help (specifically yours) to keep things interesting. However, "[i]n all seriousness," you'd like your article to become "official," in spite of your deliberate ignorance of (official Heroscape) D&D units, and dismissal of Fanscape - C3V/SoV, and you wanted "more posters to see your admiration for the little ninja." And you've been here how long?

Merry Christmas!

~ Kolakoski, who thought he was all that (Heroscape-wise) not so long ago

"The first step towards wisdom is to admit you know nothing." ~ Socrates

I'm just sayin' it'd be nice. That's all. It doesn't matter in the long run of things, like how the announcers comment on football. It's entertaining, but doesn't have much of an impact on the actual game itself, really.

That's what my article is. Entertaining. (Least I hope it is.)

And you're actually comparing how long I've been a member to my knowledge of Scape?? Seriously? That's a bit of a cheap shot.

I've been playin' since the game first debuted, fella'. I may miss something here and there, but I'd bet my next paycheck I could pass any Heroscape test that got thrown at me.

And I'm just not a fan of C3V units. They're not official units in the game. Just a product of a fan website. It's great if some people play them, nothing wrong with that, It's just I personally will never review any C3V units. Not my style.

[MegaSilver]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Let this thread die and let us stop feeding his ego.