The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Astroking112]

I really like this direction for Xarek Roughscale. Lizard King Usurper will be a lot of fun to play around with, and it makes Zogross more palatable as a Lizard King if you're getting some backup.

I also like how the statline mimics the Greenscales. Giant Killer looks relatively niche, but it makes for a fun theme, and I'd rather see his points low for a Lizard King than see him get some flashy new power.

I'm not entirely sold on the name Lizard King Usurper. It's fine and it conveys what it does, but it does feel odd to claim that he "usurped" Nilfheim and claimed leadership of the Greenscales. Something like "Second Strongest" could more accurately convey that Xarek is just a particularly tough Greenscale that will step in as soon as there's no bigger lizard out there.

Originally Posted by superfrog

Kind of doubles down on Zogross territory, but maybe that's not the worst thing?

I don't think that this guy is a very convincing Warlord. Why not go with a simple class of Warrior? It fits the idea of him being a stronger Greenscale (but weaker King), and it even has some weak synergy with Zogross to subtly encourage the pairing.

[Drewman-chu]

I really the theme and niche of this figure. I think an alternative figure might fit the theme better however. When I think of Usurper, I am thinking of a bad-ass lizardfolk character that could give a dragon a run for its money. I once used a Blackscale Lizardfolk figure for a custom that fit's the bill. The figure is still widely available and not to expensive. Here is the custom card so you can see what he looks like.

https://pin.it/2p9pezP

[robbdaman]

Blackscale Lizardfolk are even more difficult to come by since they came out like 15 years ago.

Overall I don't think him being able to take over the King role for Zogross or dragons is a bad idea or that big of a deal. Even if you kill whatever dragon this guy isn't anywhere near as tough or useful, at 70 points or so he shouldn't be. The King being such a lynchpin of those armies has typically made them somewhat weak.

[kevindola]

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

I don't like Usurper thematically anyway. If he's a Usurper he'd be actively plotting to, well... usurp, wouldn't he? Here he's just stepping in and taking up the mantle if the first king falls - he's far more an heir than a usurper.

Kind of got me thinking, but if he is a Usurper then the mechanic could be when the King has 1 life less destroy the king and Usurper becomes the new king.

And/or combined with an adjacency requirement for the Usurper (killing the current king) In fact at that point you you might not even need a wound requirement on the Lizard King. Just destroy the lizard king and you have a new one.

[Drewman-chu]

And/or combined with an adjacency requirement for the Usurper (killing the current king) In fact at that point you you might not even need a wound requirement on the Lizard King. Just destroy the lizard king and you have a new one.

I like this line of thought. It really fits the theme of the card.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by kevindola

Kind of got me thinking, but if he is a Usurper then the mechanic could be when the King has 1 life less destroy the king and Usurper becomes the new king.

And/or combined with an adjacency requirement for the Usurper (killing the current king) In fact at that point you you might not even need a wound requirement on the Lizard King. Just destroy the lizard king and you have a new one.

This feels like it's forcing the theme too much.

[Knight of Scape]

Originally Posted by kevindola

Kind of got me thinking, but if he is a Usurper then the mechanic could be when the King has 1 life less destroy the king and Usurper becomes the new king.

And/or combined with an adjacency requirement for the Usurper (killing the current king) In fact at that point you you might not even need a wound requirement on the Lizard King. Just destroy the lizard king and you have a new one.

I don't think it would often be worth putting OMs on Xarek instead of the Greenscales just so that you can keep him close enough to kill your own lizard king. Might as well just spend your turns getting as much use as possible out of the original king.

I think that thematically it's not too hard to see Xarek usurping the throne with the card as is. I just imagine that his plan to get the king killed was convincing him to fight on the front lines of this dangerous battle (kind of a Uriah the Hittite type murder). I agree that Champion or Warrior might work better as a class name, though.

[superfrog]

Good ol' Uriah the Hittite.

[DanieLoche]

What about "Opportunist(ic ?)" ? Feels better than "Usurper".

Otherwise, I was thinking about something like "if Xarek kills a lizardking, it can take its place, and add xx to it's attack and defense values".
Might want to allow in one way or another to take turns with Xarek instead of the Lizardking (or just move when a Lizardfolk is played ?) to make it doable, but this is going into a tricky direction...
=> Hard to put into action but really gratifying.
=> Yes I know, I am pushing the idea really too far here... I already know and agree with the "NOPE" answer.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I'm not sure I like having a backup to Nilfheim or Quahon for the Greenscales. Killing the Dragon is such an important part of breaking that army.

This was my initial reaction as well. I suggest flipping it. Give this guy "Name a Successor" so if you choose him as your Lizard King, you get to choose another when he dies. That way the ~200 points you spent on a Dragon is sitting in your start zone for a while. Or you can have this guy and Zogross for about the same price.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Here he's just stepping in and taking up the mantle if the first king falls - he's far more an heir than a usurper.

See above.

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

I think I like that he could be a Userper of his own Lizardfolk people rather than the Userper of a Dragon.

You could likewise limit my suggestion to just Lizardfolk. Thematic, but it may be unnecessary given the other figure has to wait its turn, and that's a lot of nothing for a ~200 point Dragon to do.

Originally Posted by capsocrates

What about Warlord?

Originally Posted by superfrog

Kind of doubles down on Zogross territory, but maybe that's not the worst thing?

I had an old design for a Lizard King ("Take Up the Mantle" let you sacrifice Greenscales after his demise to bring "him" back as the new King; it's fun, but maybe problematic if you don't agree with suddenly giving a squaddie extra stats and Life). Despite the name, it was also a Warlord. It had a second power that worked better with Ullar figures, so he could bond with 1) Romans, but he was overpriced for what he did, 2) Armocs, but he couldn't come back, or 3) Greenscales, to make full use of everything. I don't think this guy needs all those options, but on the other hand it helped give him more than 1 real army option.

Originally Posted by Astroking112

I also like how the statline mimics the Greenscales. Giant Killer looks relatively niche, but it makes for a fun theme, and I'd rather see his points low for a Lizard King than see him get some flashy new power.

It's funny how almost everything about this card is the same as my updated version of that old Lizard King (which I think was tossed around inside C3V years back). All stats the same, points within 5, some kind of Lizard King power and an attack-boosting power. I'm not a huge fan of Giant Killer given how narrow it is (hi, Denrick, that's an awful lot of dust on you), but something in that vein is thematically cool.

I think we're on to something here, it may just be a tweak or two away yet.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Scytale

I'm not sure I like having a backup to Nilfheim or Quahon for the Greenscales. Killing the Dragon is such an important part of breaking that army. Maybe limit Usurper to only other Lizardfolk Lizard Kings?

Other than that, I like the concept, and the simplicity. Pretty much everything on the design works. "Usurper" for the class feels a little too direct (is he still a Usurper when he's the Lizard King?), but it's not bad.

I agree except that I'm sure I don't like having a backup Greenscale leader.

[Astroking112]

Almost all of the downvotes towards Masha expressed an interest in seeing the design without the Demon species.

Beyond the theme not working as well without his intended species, there are some problems with most of the suggestions that I've seen. I'd appreciate any feedback on these species to know if any are particularly problematic and would cause significant pushback on a resubmission.

Suggestions that I've seen:

• Oni, Akuma - These don't follow the precedent of Feylundian mythological species names, which typically use a vague English name. Gurei-Oni is an ogre, Khosumet is a wolf, etc.
• Ogre - This is Gurei-Oni's species. Thematically, Masha is from the same part of Feylund as him, so the only problem is that they look nothing like each other. Beyond their size and anatomical differences, Masha has two eyes and more magical powers. I could be the only one who cares about that, though.
• Devil - This maintains the theme the best, but I've avoided it in the past because of potential religious connotations. I'm not sure if anyone feels like it's more egregious than demons.
• Daemon - This came to mind while I was programming a daemon recently (plus, there are Elementals and Elementars, so minor species changes aren't unprecedented). If you look at the Greek roots, it doesn't really fit (in short, demon=bad and daemon=good), but most modern connotations assume that a daemon is bad anyway, or treat it as an alternative spelling of Demon.
• Half-Demon - This is too long to fit cleanly into the species box, judging from the X-2 Customs Card Creator.