The Book of Baron Zemo (Helmut Zemo)

[A3n]

Looks good. I am sort of with Johnny on the lack of mastermindish feel & definitely think he should have at least 4 defense.

[quozl]

OK, this better?

MASTER SWORDPLAY
If Baron Zemo attacks an adjacent figure with his normal attack and at least one skull is rolled, he may attack the same figure again. He may continue attacking the defending figure until you fail to roll a skull or the defending figure is destroyed. Before attacking, if you reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card, you may add one automatic skull to Baron Zemo's first attack this turn.

[IAmBatman]

I guess. But I'm not liking that the mechanics aren't really following turn order.

Maybe SirG has some tips on Master Swordplay and making it clearer.

My main concern is whether or not to scrap Parry for something more Mastermind-like or not, and what that might be. If we did, I'd go all the way up to defense of 5.

[quozl]

Yeah, I'd scrap the X from Master Swordplay myself. He should be using that for Master of Deception.

[IAmBatman]

I could just stick with regular Swordplay. With an attack of 4, it should be plenty useful already.

Or I could scrap Swordplay altogether and just go with Parry instead.

Lots of options. My biggest thing is wanting to find that second "mastermindish" power that'll make folks really happy with that aspect.

Should he be playing off of Avenger Markers/Masters of Evil Markers/Patriotic personalities like his father? (Not in the same way, of course, but maybe in some other sort of way?).

[Lord Pyre]

Maybe something simple like Wizard's Criminal power? A static bonus that applies to certain figures? I'm not sure who he really runs with, to see if there are any useable classes to boost (Would rather not do criminal if possible).

[IAmBatman]

Yeah - this especially goes out to anyone who knows the character really well - what types of effects are missing here to make him feel like a complete version of Baron Helmut Zemo?

After I figure that out and we get together a second power, then I'll do some polling to figure out whether we want Swordplay, Master Swordplay, or Parry as power #3.

[quozl]

So he masterminded the Thunderbolts?

[IAmBatman]

From Wiki (brainstorming here):

"Zemo has a gifted intellect, with certain scientific expertise, excellent marksmanship, and extensive training in hand-to-hand combat. He is also a highly accomplished strategist and leader. Helmut has circuitry in his headband designed to disrupt psionic manipulation. He carried various rifles, and sometimes carries a hand-held spray-gun for Adhesive X, the most powerful bonding agent ever invented. The Moonstones grant Helmut Zemo a massive array of superhuman powers such as energy/gravity/light manipulation, molecular phasing, strength/durability augmentation, the ability to create spatial warps, flight and more."

His intellect is depicted here with his deception power, IMO.

Scientific expertise? Not as much.

Excellent marksmanship? Well range and a normal attack of 4 helps there. We could possibly bump his range up one. I'm good either way.

Hand-to-hand combat is covered in whichever sword power we keep.

Strategist/leader is in the deception power, but it seems like folks would like something extra here? He's a good candidate for Master Manipulator, but that feels a bit overdone at this point. And it's not a good fit with Master of Deception anyway.

For his Headband that disrupts psionic manipulation, Mental Shield would be a good fit, but it seems folks want something a bit more "showy" here than that.

We could do something with Adhesive X, but I think his father's card covers that aspect of Zemoness well already. No need to be redundant.

We could do an equipment glyph for the Moonstones, but I'm going for more of a classic approach to this guy - not sure I want to bite off all of that. Better to let someone else interested in doing a Heroic Age version of the character tackle him later. We have a few different Zemo minis now, so using this one won't stop a more modern version of him from being done later.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions for that elusive leadership/strategist power?

Edit: quozl - he's been a leader for the Thunderbolts, for at least one incarnation of the Masters of Evil, and for various other efforts to oppose the Avengers.

[quozl]

Riffing off the Thunderbolts idea:

MASTER OF DECEPTION
All criminals you control cannot be attacked until a criminal you control attacks a figure.

[johnny139]

One thing he seems to do - in comparison to his father - is use really underhanded tactics with his Masters of Evil and Thunderbolts and all that. While Heinrich just sort of got a bunch of dudes together and tried to smash the Avengers, he tends to be more manipulative and disruptive.

So maybe something that plays with your opponent's Order Markers?

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by quozl

Riffing off the Thunderbolts idea:

MASTER OF DECEPTION
All criminals you control cannot be attacked until a criminal you control attacks a figure.

My impression from the feedback so far is that folks like the current Master of Deception power (I do as well). We're not looking to replace it. We're looking to add to it.

Originally Posted by johnny139

One thing he seems to do - in comparison to his father - is use really underhanded tactics with his Masters of Evil and Thunderbolts and all that. While Heinrich just sort of got a bunch of dudes together and tried to smash the Avengers, he tends to be more manipulative and disruptive.

So maybe something that plays with your opponent's Order Markers?

Hmm ... but isn't using underhanded tactics that are manipulative and disruptive kind of what the current Master of Deception power does already? I guess it only disrupts your opponent's expectations, though, rather than what your opponent can do.